let me explain some parts of the law

[joethenuts]

a lot of posters keep thinking that if its written in the law ,thats it.  well wrong ,ask any solicitor.

if that was the case we would not need any courts.

a law is written for instance law 1.   then there is only if  a  or   f   or section  bla , does not ocur.

lets talk about photos in a post office, once you hand over your letters and as soon as the postman stamps them ,they are deemed to be the property of the federal gov. once you touch or take a photo ,then theres privacy laws.  its simple its not yours anymore.

we also have posters complaining about paypal taking money out of your account when there is a problem.

read your contract with them , you agreed to there policy  ,if you dont agree dont sign up or take the contract to a solicitor. 

just because something is said in the law , companies have agreements with them  .  like the bank on charge backs  the law states a bank cant take money out of another banks client.  but the banks have an agreement that allows that.  and we all know that happens.

look at the law about porn movies , i still have had nobody answere that.  its simple the law states porn movies can only be sold in canberra.    have a look around  most suburbs have an adult shop.   i would say there is an agreement with the law.  these shops are not hidden , some are the size of small supermarkets.

in fact a couple of months ago i won an auction on ebay for some new steel paint tins and lids , when she gave me the pick up details  it was to an adult bookstore , i then looked at the  item number  in case i bid on the wrong line, but all correct. anyway i drive to the loading bay ,she opened up the roller door and my eyes nearly popped out , as i was loading the boxes , i did not ask why they had new empty paint tins , but i did ask why the girl on the corner wearing  just underwear was smiling at me ,she said thats a blow up doll , yes but whats her name.     lol

[lyndal1838]

Mine are back in 'Murrica again too stawks.   They have wracked up a good few frequent flyer points in the last few weeks....here one day then in'Murrica for 3 or 4 days. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[imastawka]

Glad it's not just me, then       

I was starting to get a persecution complex      

Even though it's just one more tab to open, I kinda get lazy about

going to 'Murrica   

[colic2bullsgirlore]

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@joethenuts wrote:

let me explain what the word lodgement means and i am sure others will . once you give your item to a postoffice  its not lodged  once there is a stamp on it its not lodged only when the post office puts there mark on the item ala there stamp on it not one that you lick. it means its in the hands of the aus post. and it stays in the hands of aus post building  vans and so on until delivery. privacy act  if you had an item sent to me joethenuts  with my address on it. who is allowed to see for instance where i live , not you its there property.

i will ask you or anyone a question and this is one reason taking photos dont stand up lawers win these whithin minutes.

this was happening a few years back when small memory chips were the go.  seller would go to the post office with lets say 6 envelopes all addresed to diferent buyers , the post office would lodge them with there mark  on them , then the seller would ask if they can take a photo of them ,so the post office would give them the letters and while serving other people the seller would put the 6 envelopes next to each other and take a photo. then give the 6 envelopes back to the postman ,he would in some cases check that they were the 6 envelopes that has been marked off , and say all good .  but what would happen is only 5 got to the right  place ,were did the other one go,  this is your question

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Joe this is just one example of what lodged means re Australia posts contractual obligations.

AP (contract) Dictionary page 12

Lodge...defintion

!) placing it in a post box

Crikey that would be a cramped job???............. sitting in a red mail box waiting for a parcel to fall on your head so

that you could stamp it.

I also wondered Joe why AP would need to pay compensation for lost or damaged articles if they "owned"

them .....any ideas???

TIA

67.1.2 lost - means unable to be found or located after reasonable inquiries by Australia Post and includes where Australia Post reasonably believes that an article has not been delivered

77 Claimant

77.1 Where an article is lodged for domestic carriage only the sender may claim for loss of an article and only the addressee may claim for damage to an article provided, however, either party may irrevocably assign in writing, its right to claim to the other.

77.2Where an article is lodged in Australia for international carriage only the sender may claim for loss or damage to the article.

77.3 Where an article is lodged outside Australia for international carriage to Australia, discretionary compensation may be claimed only for damage and only by the addressee

.

[colic2bullsgirlore]

So the post above shows that the sender is the owner of the article.

if they act as an agent on behalf of another then part of their responsibility is to lodge the article in ana ceeptable manner.

The sender or addressee however, may irrevocably assign in writing, its right to claim to the other.

If Australia post owned the article legally then neither could claim

.................. have a nice day.............

[colic2bullsgirlore]

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@joethenuts wrote:

anyway a very interesting topic  . what have we learned [nothing] lol

we have posters saying once its lodged it belongs to aus post

we have posters saying it allways belongs to the buyer

we have posters saying it still belongs to the sender until its delivered

we have posters saying it belongs to the sender 

at the end of the day we all loose.lol

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The sender is the owner.

The sender may be only acting as an agent of the addressee (ie the adressee may be the owner as per the SOGA)

Australia post may become the owner of an article after lodgement if it cannot be delivered or resturned to the sender.

They end up at the sead letter office and are auctioned generally for charity

http://www.australianauctionreview.com.au/auction-review/australia-post-auction-attract-large-crowd

[colic2bullsgirlore]

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@joethenuts wrote:

you must have agreement but seler cant refuse now i have it from the horses mouth , this is not my writing as prob no spelling mistakes , i also have the wearabouts to find a copy of this .here goes

The buyer owns the goods no later than when they pay for them, but they are not at the buyers risk until delivered.

Unless the contract clearly specifies otherwise, the place for delivery is the place where the goods are located at the time sold. Therefore, unless the listing specifically and clearly states otherwise (“no pickup allowed’), the buyer has an absolute right to go to the place where the goods are located and demand they be handed over, with delivery having occurred, and risk passing to the buyer, when they are handed over.

Then, if the buyer, having paid for the goods, is unwilling or unable to pick them up, then they can ask for someone to pick them up for them, or ask the seller to arrange for them to send to them by carrier.  Furthermore if the listing provided a carrier option, then, if the buyer asks for them to be delivered, the seller is contractually obliged to send the goods to the buyer by carrier, but as the goods belong to the buyer, again, unless the contract specifically and clearly specifies otherwise, the choice of carrier is for the buyer to make.  That is, unless the TOS clearly and specifically state that only the carrier options contained in the listing are to be used, the buyer has an absolute right to instruct the seller to use someone else. 

Finally, if the buyer chooses to have it delivered by carrier, then the seller is the buyer’s agent for the purposes delivery, and as such, they are required to do everting reasonably practical to ensure it arrives safely, and having done all these things for the buyer, handing the goods to the carrier has the same effect as if the goods had been handed to the buyer – risk passes from the seller to the buyer. That is, handing the goods to the carrier has the same effect as if the buyer had gone to the place where the goods were located and picked them up.

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The buyer by paying for  postage on top of purchase price or agreeing to free postage inclusive of purchase price

automatically accepts liability.

The sender is still the sender

The carrier is still the carrier

The addressee is still the addressee

The owner is the addreesee

If I send an item to a warranty centre for repair and the warranty centre then sends it back repaired then.....

The sender is the sender

the carrier is the carrier

the addressee becomes the senders agent upon return of the item

However the sender is always the owner

Don't paint yourself into a corner...........

the horses mouth is uttering exactly the opposite of what you are argueing for in the affirmative......... although it is

highly entertaining.

do you see a common theme developing ...the carrier is always the carrier but ownership varies

The carrier only becomes the owner if the article is deemed undeliverable and sent to the dead letter office

[colic2bullsgirlore]

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@joethenuts wrote:

i went to libaries   i am sure you have them were you live go thru a quiet a few of them , i did and it changed me.       as you all can see i did at no stage 6 months ago agree with anything he said, now look at me ,[i can see the light]

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I thought that once... I could see the light at the end of the tunnel

................. it was just some **bleep** with a torch.....bringing me more work

[colic2bullsgirlore]

So just my last little post for those that think the internet invented direct selling and therefore few or little laws have

evolved

........ did you buy the Seamonkeys off the back of the comic???? if you did then that was your first remote purchase.

The same laws still govern remote purchase

Direct selling ala mail order or travelling salesman with brochures but no product has been going on for over a century.

The mode that a prospective buyer receives your product information and terms of sale is irrevelant.

Try "direct selling" as a search parameter or mail order in dr google

[bakeandfry]

Come on you will confuse him, half of us are already waiting on the proof about the law (his law), all responses so far have been him trying to change the subject, by way of carding at a PO, using someone else's post's as defence, or saying you dont understand.

i shure hope he can provide physical proof about "let me explain some parts of the law".

[joethenuts]

mm   no coment