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paypal seller protection.

This is a purely a hypothetical question.


 


Buyer buys item on ebay and pays with paypal, I offer registered post so they elect to use it as it is more secure.


 


The item does not arrive and the buyer puts an INR case in with paypal which they don't win as I have proof of postage. No money is refunded to the buyer by paypal and they have no item.


 


I then go to AP and claim the item was not delivered and get compensated by them.


 


Basically I get they buyers money and the insurance from AP, is this correct??


 


 


 

Message 1 of 38
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paypal seller protection.

whoops....


 


...and buyer gets refund from paypal...

Message 11 of 38
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paypal seller protection.

 


They say they give a refund dont they? WHat is buyer protection? I find it false advertising....And I am a selller....


 


What do the call the full PJs from the past (witht he cat)?

Message 12 of 38
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paypal seller protection.

PayPal is not insurance - it never has been. If a seller can not provide proof of postage, they lose the funds because the assumption made is not that it never arrived, but that it was never posted - that is why I have said before, it is not protection against not receiving an item (in Australia), but protection against the seller doing the wrong thing (as it were), but they can only deal with the PayPal payment, not what happens to any compensation paid. 


 


In regards to the UK seller - a PayPal claim would have been won by the buyer because the item wasn't received and/or the seller couldn't prove that it was, since over there, by law the seller is responsible for items until they are received. Royal Mail does have insurance, so that was just PP and RM working according to their own policies - but if you read the UK PP policies, it says that if a seller provides proof of delivery, a refund to the buyer may not be made even if the item was never received. 


 


Before Click & Send, PayPal had a clause that if the seller had proof of postage, a discretionary payment to the buyer may be made. Now they say that if the seller provides proof of postage, a refund may not be forthcoming. PayPal's may tends to err on the side of won't (and for the grammar sticklers, I know that creates a double negative with may not - but you know what I mean)


 


If the buyer selects registered post (or otherwise insured service) and the item is not delivered, I'm pretty sure the seller has a legal obligation to seek any compensation due and pass it on to the buyer. Nothing, unfortunately, can force the seller to pass it on, except their own moral compass....or court (I believe if it came to that, though, expenses incurred by the complainant [buyer] if they win the case should also be payable by the seller, however that's just an assumption, and there are others more qualified than me who will probably know for sure).

Message 13 of 38
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paypal seller protection.

if they win the case should also be payable by the seller, however that's just an assumption, and there are others more qualified than me who will probably know for sure).



 


What tha! on one hand you speak law on the other ethics. It is the law I am questioning

Message 14 of 38
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paypal seller protection.

I did not read all you post DG but i think most believe it to be insurance.....

Message 15 of 38
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paypal seller protection.

not directed at yooooou

Message 16 of 38
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paypal seller protection.

What most might believe it to be and what it actually is is not the same thing, then. Insurance companies pay money to people who pay premiums to protect the financial value of things that are not otherwise granted protection. PayPal gets money back from the seller under certain circumstances - it is by no definition insurance.


 


And in regards to talking about law and ethics, yes, true often they are mutually exclusive, but that doesn't mean they're polar opposites and all I did was mention there is nothing that will force a seller to pass on compensation except their morals, or a court if they don't have them. 


 


If you had read my post, you would have seen that I did actually answer the legal side of your question. Here, I'll bold it, once more with feeling. ๐Ÿ˜‰ ๐Ÿ˜›


 


If the buyer selects registered post (or otherwise insured service) and the item is not delivered, I'm pretty sure the seller has a legal obligation to seek any compensation due and pass it on to the buyer.


 

Message 17 of 38
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paypal seller protection.

Oh good grief. I'm going away. :^O

Message 18 of 38
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paypal seller protection.

lol you have a point........

Message 19 of 38
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paypal seller protection.

 


The Aust Pot claims process is clearly headed โ€œDiscretionaryโ€.  This means it is an โ€˜administrative processโ€™ which allows it to compensate without the need of the other party to commence legal action, with the policy being structured so, administratively, itโ€™s easiest for Aust Post. 


 


As comprehensively discussed in other threads once payment has been made the goods belongs to the buyer.  Therefore both under the statute and at common law any compensation belongs to the buyer, and in fact the SoGA places a specific onus on the seller to assist the buyer to access that compensation, and if they donโ€™t, then delivery may not be deemed:  application of sub section 2 which in so far as its is relevant states โ€œthe seller must make such contract with the carrier on behalf of the buyer as may be reasonable, having regard to the nature of the goods and the other circumstances of the caseโ€


 


That is should the item go missing these words clearly impose a legislative obligation on the seller to assist the buyer to access any entitlements to compensation they, the buyer, may have, and if they donโ€™t and if โ€œgoods are lost or damaged in course of transit, the buyer may decline to treat the delivery to the carrier as a delivery to himself or may hold the seller responsible in damagesโ€.


 


 So this is how deemed delivery works in conjunction with the Aust Post Discretional Claims Process.


 


The Aust Post policy requires the seller lodge the claim for no other reason than it easiest for them (Aust Post) to administration the process if the person who has the documentation lodges it, and  SoGA Act places a clear obligation on the seller to do exactly that.


 


Once the claim has been lodged the seller can do one of two things.  They can, get the buyer to provide them with a stat dec stating the item has not been received as well as assigning to the seller their rights to the compensation.  The seller and then reimburse buyer out of their own pocket, which of course means, if the claim is rejected, any resultant dispute is between the seller and Aust Post.


 


In the alternative the seller can lodge the claim and then tell Australia Post, if the claim is accepted, to send the money to the buyer, which of course means, if itโ€™s rejected, any dispute is between the buyer and Aust Post.


 


However what they canโ€™t do is get the compensation and not pass it onto the buyer, because if they did, this action would fall within the definition of fraud.


 


Oh and just for completeness sake which option do I recommend.  If you are a profession seller and expect to make a living from selling then it is up to you, to within reason, satisfy the needs of your customers.


 


So this is what used to I do for items sent regular post.  (1) Attach a โ€œDo Not Safe Drop Sticker (DNSD)โ€.  (2) If the buyer says it wasnโ€™t received, get them to check with their local post office to see if itโ€™s there.  (3) If they come back and say itโ€™s isnโ€™t, get them to provide a stat dec and assign their rights to any compensation me. (4) I then lodge the claim and reimburse the buyer.


 


Now hereโ€™s the important bit.  If Aust post reject the claim on the basis that their records show the item has been delivered (5) remind them that the item was covered by a โ€œDNSDโ€ sticker therefore it had to be handed over (not safe dropped) and provide them with a copy of the sat dec which states it wasnโ€™t receive.


 


From this point onwards the argument is, Aust Post policy stipulated the item cannot be safe dropped.  Therefore if no one was home the item had to be carded and returned to the Post Office (PO) for collection. 


 


They have a stat dec from the intended recipient stating it wasnโ€™t received, nor was a card found on the premises (under the door, in the letter box etc), nor was it available for collection from the local Post Office. 


 


Therefore there are now only two possible contenders.  Either it was delivered to wrong address or it delivered to the correct address but, contrary to instructions โ€˜safe droppedโ€™, and it matters not which of the two it was, because either proves loss of goods on account of carrier negligence.  So pay up or Iโ€™ll file a dispute with ombudsman. 


 


As for what I do if the buyer fails to do their bit.  Lodge the claim.  Tell Aust Post to give the money to the buyer.  As such, the deemed delivery provisions have been satisfied.  And is the claim is rejected itโ€™s the buyerโ€™s problem not mine.     

Message 20 of 38
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