paypal seller protection.

[dylan11235813]

This is a purely a hypothetical question.

Buyer buys item on ebay and pays with paypal, I offer registered post so they elect to use it as it is more secure.

The item does not arrive and the buyer puts an INR case in with paypal which they don't win as I have proof of postage. No money is refunded to the buyer by paypal and they have no item.

I then go to AP and claim the item was not delivered and get compensated by them.

Basically I get they buyers money and the insurance from AP, is this correct??

[patchoo78]

This is not a hypothetical question: Can anyone tell me if First Class International is eligible for seller protection? I am finding conflicting information and am dealing with a pain of a seller who thinks I'm accusing him of not sending the item.

He has told me to give 2 weeks extra which will take me past the deadline for opening a dispute.. I said I would give him until the 19th before opening a dispute.. 

[phorum_junkie*]

:^O:^O:^O:^O @ the_great_she_elephant.

Technically yes a seller can have seller protection so they do not have to fund any refund and they can put in a claim to AP, it is something I have always said was a big loophole but without Paypal requiring the seller to assign the right to claim over to them there is not much that can be done about it and it would be a cost effective exercise I should imagine.

[tall_bearded]

Response to Post 23

If you ever decide to read the publication I recommended to in your thread titled "Deemed Delivery" you will find there is no loophole.

That is though the seller is the one who files the claim, any compensation arising belongs to the buyer.  Therefore, if the seller doesn’t hand it over, they have committed and offence.  It’s called taking something which doesn’t belong to you – theft, and to remedy the situation all the buyer has to do is file a police report.

[thecatspjs]

TB - can please direct to me to the exact information that cites that any compensation arising belongs to the buyer ?

[tall_bearded]

Let me try to explain the basic principles.

The buyer owns the goods that were lost or damaged.

The monies are paid to compensate the owner for the lost or damage to the goods they own.

The Sales of Goods Act stipulated that, where title has passed from the seller to the buyer before the item has been handed to the carrier, when it comes to arranging delivery, and in inferentially anything to do with delivery, the seller must “make such contract with the carrier on behalf of the buyer as may be reasonable, having regard to the nature of the goods and the other circumstances of the case”. 

The words “on behalf of the buyer” mean that for the purposes of delivery by carrier, and inferentially anything to do with delivery, the seller is the agent of the buyer. 

Now all you need to do is obtain a copy of “Australian Mercantile Law” and look up the chapters headed, Agent, Agencies and Trustees, a copy of which you can obtain from any university book store.

[phorum_junkie*]

That is though the seller is the one who files the claim, any compensation arising belongs to the buyer.  Therefore, if the seller doesn’t hand it over, they have committed and offence.  It’s called taking something which doesn’t belong to you – theft, and to remedy the situation all the buyer has to do is file a police report.

The buyer in this hypothetical case has already received a full refund from Paypal so why would they even know or care if the seller got the money back from AP?

If the seller were to pay the AP compensation to the buyer then they would have doubled their money, the seller would be in the same position they were in before the sale and both Paypal and AP would be out of pocket by the amount of the refund!

Surely if the seller transferred the AP payment it should be to Paypal who have effectively paid the buyer for the goods so they now belong to them.

[tall_bearded]

My responses are all in the context of what the OP wrote, namely; “The item does not arrive and the buyer puts an INR case in with paypal which they don't win as I have proof of postage. No money is refunded to the buyer by paypal and they have no item”, which I concluded meant the seller proved postage and PayPal decided not to make a discretionary payment.

However you do raise a valid point. 

If PayPal Buyer Protection was insurance, then they (PayPal) would have a right to recover the cost of the claim from the negligent party.  That if the item is not received and the evidence is the most likely reason why it wasn’t received was because it was not delivered or if delivered, delivered to the wrong address then PayPal can commence an action against Aust Post to get their money back.  That is when it comes to insurance, once the insure pays any right of recovery transfers from the insured to the insurer.

Insurance companies do the all the time, and in fact all have separate units solely dedicated to identifying and actioning any claims with recovery potential, and the people who work in those areas are some of the highest paid in the insurance industry.

[bentaxle123]

Patchoo.

I don't think so. It is not trackable, but sometimes is scanned in when you collect it, but no signature is required. Definitely lodge a claim before time is up. I get a few and most take 1 to 2 weeks to get here.

[thecatspjs]

Let me try to explain the basic principles.

The buyer owns the goods that were lost or damaged.

The monies are paid to compensate the owner for the lost or damage to the goods they own.

etc etc

The monies paid by Australia Post are to compensate the claimant for loss or damage - there is no mention of owner or buyer or otherwise. AP also nominate whether the claimant is the sender or addressee depending on the situation.

Whilst other legislation may have bearing on ownership and carriage of goods, it has zero jurisdiction over the compensation policies of AP that has been provided with significant discretion in such matters under its own legislative framework.   

[dylan11235813]

I have contacted AP as a buyer to try and track down a parcel and they always tell me that it is only the sender that can request (get) the information.

So in terms of AP it is the sender that still owns the parcel??