Feedback

[2012happychap]

Hi,

I am just wondering why some sellers don't leave feedback for buyers until after the buyer has left feedback for them?

[2012happychap]

well you did make an assumption then, as I was purely indicating when the transaction was complete for the buyer, I did not note when the transaction was complete for the seller, and for me as a buyer my obligations is completed once I have paid the seller, I the buyer have fulfilled my obligation, however the sellers obligation is not complete until the item has been received by the buyer, just as if the transaction was completed in a store, there is no real difference and if any anything further is required it is dealt with in an after sales situation
Simply put, seller has item for sale, buyer buys and pays for item, buyer has completed their obligation of the transaction, seller delivers item to buyer, seller has completed their obligation of the initial sale, however seller has statutory responsibilities, which if a problem exists are dealt with in an after sales situation

[digital*ghost]

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@2012happychap wrote:
well you did make an assumption then, as I was purely indicating when the transaction was complete for the buyer, 

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I made no assumptions at all - I was not trying to tell you what you think, I was trying to show you how what you think re: buyer's obligations applies in the reverse.

I was trying to get you to broaden your perspective a little, because most sellers can't and don't make business decisions based on what a few buyer think should - or want to - happen. It's not about what you do as an individual, it's about how a seller chooses to run and manage their business concerning all buyers, which they have every right to do. 

So you pay for an item. Great. Talk to myriad sellers who have had plenty of buyers who didn't let an item remain paid for. If you contact a seller when there's a problem, and are reasonable, polite and respectful, fantastic, but talk to some sellers who have had to deal with upteen buyers who are anything but. Maybe you don't see certain post-sale behaviours like politeness, reasonable expectations, non-demanding, non-harassing over minor or non-issues, feedback extortion, fraudulent chargebacks and PayPal claims... Maybe, when you take a moment to look at how/why sellers reach these decisions, you won't feel like you're owed feedback when you want it.

Personally, as I buyer I feel I do have certain responsibilities in a transaction after I've paid, but even if I didn't, I still respect my fellow traders enough to respect their choices when it comes to things they have every right to choose on their own, rather than decide everyone should do things the way I want them to be done.

[2012happychap]

of course you made an assumption, you put in something about the seller that I did not say that is an assumption, and you have based your discussion on something you assumed, not something I said or for that matter even intended

And you could have simply explained what happens to some sellers on here, things that I was not aware of, but these things also happen outside in the commercial world and if a seller wishes to be a seller they need to learn to deal with them, there are bad buyers just as there are bad sellers and if you choose to be a seller then you need learn to deal with them, as I had to when I was in business, and you don't whinge about it

If you wish to be an advocate for sellers that is fine, but please don't try and push your opinions on to me, as I have my own mind and my own life experience and I do know what people are capable of

and yes I do pay for an item straight away, and I do respect the seller that I'm dealing with and I expect them to respect me

and by the way I am entitled to my opinion, just as you are to yours, and I would appreciate if you respected that, as you just may not know everything there is to know about the seller buyer dynamic

[*crikey*mate*]

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@2012happychap wrote:
well you did make an assumption then, as I was purely indicating when the transaction was complete for the buyer, I did not note when the transaction was complete for the seller, and for me as a buyer my obligations is completed once I have paid the seller, I the buyer have fulfilled my obligation, however the sellers obligation is not complete until the item has been received by the buyer, just as if the transaction was completed in a store, there is no real difference and if any anything further is required it is dealt with in an after sales situation
Simply put, seller has item for sale, buyer buys and pays for item, buyer has completed their obligation of the transaction, seller delivers item to buyer, seller has completed their obligation of the initial sale, however seller has statutory responsibilities, which if a problem exists are dealt with in an after sales situation

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Would it please be possible for you to show me where in Australian Consumer Law, Contract Law or eBay Policy or Australian PayPal policies  it says "the seller's obligation is not complete until the item has been received by the buyer"?

The same for where it says a "seller must deliver the item to the buyer"

Additionally, could you please define for me what a sale is and what a transaction is?

Thanks.

[digital*ghost]

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@2012happychap wrote:
, you put in something about the seller that I did not say 

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Please be kind enough to point out what.

You responded to my first post with

“By your reasoning, buyers should be leaving sellers feedback once they've posted the item”, not at all I’m not sure how you came to that conclusion, that conclusion is incorrect

I explained it wasn't a conclusion, nor an assumption of how you view the seller's obligation in a transaction. I was simply using the logic you applied to the situation from the other side. That makes no assumptions about anything, the only thing it attempts to make is a point. Obviously it didn't make it clearly enough. 

Now you have also said "I was purely indicating when the transaction was complete for the buyer, I did not note when the transaction was complete for the seller", so you obviously recognise the transaction is not complete for the seller when a buyer has paid, therefore surely you can actually see my point that it's perfectly reasonable for a seller to leave feedback when the transaction is concluded from their perspective.

I have not tried to push my opinions on you, I have tried to show you that a lot of other people have different experiences and those have helped create their own opinions. I'm not the one sitting here saying feedback should be left when a buyer has paid and fulfilled that one obligation - I'm the one sitting here saying it's everyone's right to choose if/when they leave it and trying my best to show you some of the reasons why sellers make other choices.

And I attempted to highlight that there is a lot that can happen in a transaction post-payment without spelling it out in my second post. 

I am not an advocate for sellers, I am an advocate for all members and their right to choose (and just so we're clear, as a seller I leave feedback as soon as payment is made - that's my choice - as a buyer I don't care if/when it's left. My posts are probably a little reactionary, since the whole "I think feedback should be left at such-and-such time, so why aren't sellers doing it" really bugs me, but I don't think I have been disrespectful. 

[*crikey*mate*]

[2012happychap]

I wasn't talking about consumer law, although that is quite a diverse subject. I was talking about when I thought feedback was appropriate, if you wish to find out about consumer law, you sound smart enough to find that out for yourself

“Let's start with a definition of a commercial transaction. A commercial transaction is essentially an agreement between two or more parties to enter into a commercial relationship that involves the exchange of items of value, either on a one-off basis (as in the case of a sale), or on an ongoing basis (as in the case of an investment in a business or a joint venture).
The relevant laws and legal issues will depend on a number of factors, including the jurisdiction in which the parties and the relevant assets are located, the nature and structure of the transaction, the commercial agreements governing the transaction and any legal, regulatory or procedural requirements that need to be satisfied in order to give effect to the transaction.”

“sales agreement - an agreement (or contract) in which property is transferred from the seller (vendor) to the buyer (vendee) for a fixed price in money (paid or agreed to be paid by the buyer);”

[2012happychap]

I'm sorry at the moment I have other things to do, this subject was not as important as it seems to be to you

again it was my opinion when feedback should be left, so please respect that

[davewil1964]

It must have been important to you as you started a thread about it. Instead of reading the myriad previous threads about this subject.

[2012happychap]

it was simply a question I had