Gift Card Nightmares!

[mark.wooba]

I have an unbelievable story to tell here. I like buying Gift Cards on eBay because you sometimes get them at a nice discount. I rely on the eBay Money Back Guarantee, which appears prominently under the Buy button on gift card listings (I don't rely on PayPal with gift cards, because I know PayPal explicitly excludes gift cards from their buyer protection policy). In the small print, eBay does exclude "intangibles", but items sent by registered or trackable mail cannot be defined as intangibles.

This last month, I've been stung 4 times buying gift cards:

1) CARD ARRIVED WITH $440 MISSING CREDIT

Bought a $500 Coles gift card, but when it arrived it only had $60 credit. The PIN was still covered up. Turns out that the Seller had put a photo of the card number on the listing, so someone had taken the number, executed a brute force attack on the Coles gift card website until they got the PIN (Coles should stop this, you can execute unlimited tries with the PIN on their site, or could as of when this happened), then the thief had cloned the card with a magnetic strip reader/writer, and used $440 credit at Liquorland in SA (I am in QLD, seller in VIC).  Fortunately the seller was very nice and refunded me, and they took it up with the police, so this never became a PayPal or eBay claim.

2) SELLER USES ME FOR A CHEAP LOAN

Another seller sold me a $230 card and simply never sent it. 2 weeks later she emailed me "sorry, there is no crdit on that card and I have to refund you". The paypal refund was "pending" for 6 days, then failed. I wrote to seller asking for immediate refund. She then refunded me properly. The only explanation that fits is that she needed some money over Xmas, an interest-free short term loan, so sold a fake card to get it!

3) SELLER SELLS ME CARDS THAT NEVER ARRIVE

Another seller sold me a $400 Woollies card that simply has not arrived. It was supposedly sent by registered mail. Numerous attempts at getting the registration number for tracking purposes did not meet with success. I did get one email, via gmail, saying "I am so sorry for the problems with your purchase. I am looking into it now and will get back to you very very soon." I heard no more (that was 2 days ago). Ebay case opened, waiting for seller response, and no response after 2 days.

4) SELLER SELLS ME $1500 BUNNING GIFT CARDS, NO TRACE

Last week I bought about $1500 worth of Bunnings Gift Cards from a seller with a seemingly good feedback record. I was immediately given an Auspost Platinum Express Post reference number (next business day delivery), but 3 days later the number shows no activity on the Auspost site, the seller is not responding to messages, and it seems to have gone missing! I called Auspost and they say they have no information on that tracking number and that the sender must contact them...

Note that these purchases all happened more or less in the same time period, around Xmas and New Year, so I am now **extremely** wary of buying gift cards again on eBay.

I have yet to test whether the eBay Money Back Guarantee looks after me. I've been a member for 15 years and spent tens of thousands of dollars through eBay, so we'll see how they look after me. I would not have thought items sent via registered post, and clearly not sent (no tracking), could be written off as "intangibles". And there are legal implications to putting the "eBay Money Back Guarantee" logo under the "Buy" button on a listing, I am told (my son is a lawyer). So we'll see.

Comments welcome...

[retailtherapist_8]

Good grief I have done it again hit the kudo button instead of reply........

I have read this thread and while I too dont understand why someone would pay over face value for  gift card, I also acknowledge that quite simply a buyers motivations are asbolutely NONE of my business.

While seemingly  perhaps a little trigger happy with the negs & neutrals   I really dont see what that has to do with the fact that this buyer went into these transactions with the expectation that he would be supplied the items "as described" he paid for in good faith .Clearly that is not the case.

Why is the buyer being so wholly scrutinised and the Sellers in question escape that same scrutiny? We all know it isnt hard to find out who they are.

I very much respect all the posters particularly the regulars on these boards, and I "get " that often posters come to the boards with issues entirely of their own making. However I do think THIS  OP has been the victim of some dispicable Sellers who need to be bought to account.

OP for what its worth I hope you get some justice but perhaps the risk/reward for these types of purchases is too heavily weighted against an honest buyer on ebay.

[mark.wooba]

Thanks, retailtherapist! I felt like I was the evil-doer here for a while, with the scrutiny I was getting!

Anyway, Case #3 is now closed, with money refunded by Seller. I think he realised this was not going to end well for him, with potentially serious consequences.

Case #4 ... I dunno, the guy is just strange. He won't send me the goods, he won't refund me, and he won't cancel the sale. He won't answer emails, and there is no feedback on his account for the 13 other Bunnings Cards he supposedly sold in the last month (to 2 buyers). It's a bit fishy!

He submitted the bogus (unused) Platinum Express tracking number to the PayPal dispute as proof he sent it, but there is nothing on the tracking, so PP have asked him to upload documentary proof of delivery (which he does not have or cannot have, since it was never delivered). If he sends me an empty envelope, I'll be opening it in front of my local policeman as evidence.

[k1ooo-slr-sales]

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@retailtherapist_8 wrote:

Good grief I have done it again hit the kudo button instead of reply........

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reta, you can revoke Kudos that have been given.  When you have given the Kudo and realised your mistake you just refresh the screen and then choose "Revoke My Kudos" from the options menu.

                                         

hope this helps

[retailtherapist_8]

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@k1ooo-slr-sales wrote:

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@retailtherapist_8 wrote:

Good grief I have done it again hit the kudo button instead of reply........

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reta, you can revoke Kudos that have been given.  When you have given the Kudo and realised your mistake you just refresh the screen and then choose "Revoke My Kudos" from the options menu.

                                         

hope this helps

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Thanks slr !  I didnt know that. ( I must admit I have felt like a real numptie having done this at times) lol

Good to see ya!

[thecatspjs]

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@retailtherapist_8 wrote:

Good grief I have done it again hit the kudo button instead of reply........

I have read this thread and while I too dont understand why someone would pay over face value for  gift card, I also acknowledge that quite simply a buyers motivations are asbolutely NONE of my business.

While seemingly  perhaps a little trigger happy with the negs & neutrals   I really dont see what that has to do with the fact that this buyer went into these transactions with the expectation that he would be supplied the items "as described" he paid for in good faith .Clearly that is not the case.

Why is the buyer being so wholly scrutinised and the Sellers in question escape that same scrutiny? We all know it isnt hard to find out who they are.

I very much respect all the posters particularly the regulars on these boards, and I "get " that often posters come to the boards with issues entirely of their own making. However I do think THIS  OP has been the victim of some dispicable Sellers who need to be bought to account.

OP for what its worth I hope you get some justice but perhaps the risk/reward for these types of purchases is too heavily weighted against an honest buyer on ebay.

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[silversterio2]

"SELLER SELLS ME $1500 BUNNING GIFT CARDS, NO TRACE

Last week I bought about $1500 worth of Bunnings Gift Cards from a seller with a seemingly good feedback record. I was immediately given an Auspost Platinum Express Post reference number (next business day delivery), but 3 days later the number shows no activity on the Auspost site, the seller is not responding to messages, and it seems to have gone missing! I called Auspost and they say they have no information on that tracking number and that the sender must contact them...

He's sold 70 items.

Case #4 ... I dunno, the guy is just strange. He won't send me the goods, he won't refund me, and he won't cancel the sale. He won't answer emails, and there is no feedback on his account for the 13 other Bunnings Cards he supposedly sold in the last month (to 2 buyers). It's a bit fishy! "

Presuming I have the right seller, it's 100 % SCAM  IMO

The listings don't really indicate a hijacked account.

The Seller has (70) feedback for buying only, none for selling

Look at the Seller's completed listings and / or enter the Seller's name in this link

http://www.goofbid.com/ebay_seller_history_tool.html

[robinsonmarineparts]

HA ha , got to close did i ? 

Thanks for the 3 day holiday.

[robinsonmarineparts]

Worried are you? ha ha

[digital*ghost]

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@mark.wooba wrote:

Just finished speaking to PayPal about the $1500 purchase. PP representative said that physical Gift Cards ARE covered by the PayPal Buyer Protection. They are only not covered when they are digitally transferred gift cards.

She agreed the tracking number was not showing any activity and placed a hold on the funds.

I asked her to note on the case that the buyer (me) had been told that this transaction IS covered by the PayPal Buyer Protection.

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For your sake, I genuinely hope that PayPal keeps their word, and as you have record of someone advising you that you'll be covered, you should have some recourse if a ruling is made otherwise, but as there has been some discussion about what PayPal's policy covers, I thought it might pay to highlight what that policy actually says.

Under the eligibility requirements, as has been noted, intangible items are generally not covered. In the policy, PayPal define what an intangible item is:

Your purchase is for a tangible good that can be shipped. For the avoidance of doubt, the PayPal Buyer Protection Policy does not apply to:

1. Intangibles (for example digitally delivered goods), although we may cover intangibles which have been transferred to a physical media (such as paper or CD-ROM) and shipped;

As you can see, intangible items may be covered if it has been transferred to a physical medium (in other words, digital content which has been printed, or the file stored on a physical medium). 

They then go on to list a number of physical items which are not covered.

• Your purchase is not for:
  1. Vehicles (including cars, motorcycles, caravans, boats and planes);
  2. Real estate;
  3. Custom made items considered to be “significantly not as described”;
  4. Industrial machinery used in manufacturing;
  5. Items prohibited under our Acceptable Use Policy;
  6. eBay Items that breach eBay's "Prohibited and Restricted Items and Services" policy;
  7. Items you collect in person or arrange to be collected on your behalf; or
  8. Quasi-cash items such as gift cards, pre-paid cards or deal vouchers;
  9. Items listed on Gumtree.

What this is actually supposed to mean is that, like cars, houses, pick-up items etc, PayPal do not consider gift cards to be intangible, but they also do not cover them with their Buyer Protection policy. 

https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#Schedule_1_PayPal_Seller_and_Buyer_Prote...

[mark.wooba]

Yes, I brought that up to both CSRs I spoke to, and both assured me that this INR case would be covered.If it were a SNAD they may have said something else.