Problem with purchase.

[michellebartley]

What does it mean when there's a payment issue with an order? I bought a DVD (no tracking number provided) It was sent on 17th January and today was the deadline for delivery, seller is in Australia by the way. I put in a request thru PayPal for refund but asked the seller for one, just today, and got a hard to decipher message back from her. Seller has 6 negatives. The cost was $11.00. Usually items posted within Australia usually only take around a week or a bit over. I checked PayPal & payment has gone through no problem. This just seems slightly puzzling.

[4channel]

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@lyndal1838 wrote:

Do give it a rest.....Michelle has been doing this sort of thing for years.

No matter how many times she has been told to be patient she still jumps the gun and opens a dispute.

And yes she acknowledges her impatience and mistakes but she still keeps doing it.

She just will not learn from her mistakes.

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It's happened a handfull of times at most. Well, maybe Michelle is a bit impatient at times but she's honest and didn't cover up on this error which she could easily have done. Just shows she has integrity and I would trust her more than I would some others that frequent these boards.

[davewil1964]

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@4channel wrote:

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@lyndal1838 wrote:

Do give it a rest.....Michelle has been doing this sort of thing for years.

No matter how many times she has been told to be patient she still jumps the gun and opens a dispute.

And yes she acknowledges her impatience and mistakes but she still keeps doing it.

She just will not learn from her mistakes.

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It's happened a handfull of times at most. Well, maybe Michelle is a bit impatient at times but she's honest and didn't cover up on this error which she could easily have done. Just shows she has integrity and I would trust her more than I would some others that frequent these boards.

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What are you on? We only have Michelle's self-reported hypocrisy, not the sum totai, which would be high, given the question wasn't about late delivery but some sort of Paypal message, so if that hadn't happened we'd be none the wiser.

You obviously don't think sellers deserve any consideration if you think an apology is okay. Apologies don't pay the rent, buddy.

[countessalmirena]

Quite separate to Michelle's account of this (because Michelle has not claimed that by her publicly posting about this example of not giving the transaction enough time before reacting, she is worthy of accolades), I don't really understand, 4channel, why you are praising her.

Kudos derives from Homeric notions of the gaining and losing of reputation, and in its use in the Iliad and Odyssey, that reputation is based upon acts that win praise or disapprobation in the eyes of the gods, or in the eyes of mankind at large through the telling of what deeds were done. That is, it's long been my view that both kudos and aidos (if we regard these as intrinsic opposites) only function when made public. However, the act of making something public is not what bestows κῦδος upon a person; conversely, to keep something secret is not how one experiences or gains αἰδώς. Shame functions here not merely as an internal discomfort and musing upon behaviour, but in essence it's a blemish mark in a punish/reward heroic system.

κῦδος in its Homeric sense (from which we derive our current meaning of kudos in English) is specifically linked to "renown". It isn't just glory; it isn't just a "well done"; it is fame for deeds. It isn't tîmê (τιμή) (honour paid to a cult, and in this context it's the cult of a hero where a man is spoken of having achieved eternal glory through being venerated and admired through the ages); it isn't geras (γέρας), the material things, gifts, etc. given in recognition of the renown or achievement (and shamefully geras includes ownership of people as material objects) - it's the favourable renown itself

To make one's deeds public, or to have another make one's deeds public, can't possibly become the reason for one's renown. That would be a circular argument. On the basis of literary precedent and logic itself, I cannot accept your bestowing of kudos upon Michelle for such a reason.

As to whether Michelle deserves accolades after recounting the episode she did, I won't pass judgement. I will just add that public acknowledgement of behaviour does not necessarily equate to remorse and a determination to do better or differently in future. It is - stripped of all associated baggage - simply publicly posting about one's thoughts and actions. There are many reasons why people may post publicly about what they do, say or think. In itself, it is neither worthy of praise nor worthy of condemnation. Perhaps the person is an extrovert or enjoys posting on public forums. Perhaps such a person gains pleasure in pulling the leg of readers. Perhaps the person is an inveterate raconteur and enjoys telling a good story (where the events may be apocryphal). While I am not suggesting it's the case here, some people post because they gain pleasure by being in the public eye; I have never watched any Kardashian apart from unavoidable snippets such as that very very tedious advertisment in which one of them barely manages to move her lips to utter a meaningless "whatever" (oh dear Lord, save us from those who have become so word-impoverished and uninterested in engaging with life that they lift their dialogue wholesale from a teen film from the 1990s!)... and that snippet was a reminder (if I needed one) that some individuals base their entire persona upon what might trend. I'm aware that some people do give a sort-of debased kudos to celebrities who are famous for no reason other than that they do and say a lot of things publicly... but it is not, in my view, grounds for kudos.

Were Michelle the shy type who has never spoken publicly about her buying habits or post-purchase behaviours, this thread might represent a breakthrough for her. But... that's not the case. I can obviously not speak for her, and I wouldn't wish to. She is perfectly capable of doing that herself.

I can draw no conclusions about the poster's honesty or integrity or trustworthiness based upon posts in these boards, and that goes for the majority of people posting on public boards. How can I gauge someone's moral qualities simply by reading a few posts? When I do feel comfortable in accepting someone's integrity or particular qualities that are admirable, I have to do so based upon not only what the person posts, but how they post, how they respond, what values they espouse, whether there is anything to show that they exhibit those values, and so on.

I gauge you to be sincere in your views, 4channel, and you have quite a lot of demonstrable gumption, at least verbally. (I don't know whether you're the sort of person who would tweak a rhinoceros's nose; it's never come up.) Whether we agree or disagree in other respects, I can value and appreciate your frankness, as one of the things I most loathe (to the point of complete detestation) is double-dealing and twisty-curly behaviour where one face smiles cunningly, but the face behind speaks maliciously and plots mischief; Martin Luther wrote (of love) that ❝It is averse to knavery, to crafty guile and double-dealing.❞ It's a wonderful description, isn't it? I think it applies just as well to ordinary dealings between any of us.

Yes, this is a long post. I'm not apologising for it; pinched nerves are radiating pain throughout me and my verbosity is taking my mind off it. I might post shorter posts if I had some chocolate left in the house... but the alarming possibility arises that such chocolate might actually strengthen me and enable ever-longer posts.

[michellebartley]

@Imastawka.
Read my post correctly, I DID pay for the DVD in the end.

[k1ooo-slr-sales]

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@4channel wrote:

Oh well Michelle, it can happen to anyone and yeah you were a bit prejudgemental of the situation but this is not an uncommon ocurrance with buyers out there. You've been very candid about the affair and admitted your error. Makes me respect you even more that you unlike some other folk about there admit this. KUDOS to you for that. *Thumbs up!*

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respectfully, I disagree with you on a number of fronts. Here's why:

- I don't believe this could happen to anyone . . . being refunded for a perceived late delivery and subsequently receiving and paying (again) for the item that is. It wouldn't happen to me. It might happen to newbies on eBay, but . . .

- . . . michelle is not a newbie eBay member who only has a few buys under her belt. She has hundreds of buys, she knows how eBay works. Thank goodness this wasn't an international purchase as has been the case on previous occasions

- michelle has contributed to these boards and has most likely read threads she has not posted on, especially on the buying boards

- being well read on these boards she would know, or ought to know, that eBay's estimated delivery times are just that . . . an estimate and not a deadline.  She would know, having read threads with a similar opening post situation, that had she contacted eBay about this they would have advised her to contact the seller AND to wait a few more days before considering further action

- had she waited just one business day past the estimated delivery dates there probably wouldn't be this thread documenting her well known penchant for jumping the gun and opening a case

- michelle knows that she can come here for advice. Had she come here and posted before opening a case, as she has on previous occasions, she would have been advised to wait a few more days before opening any case

- michelle is a creature of habit . . . as am I, and probably most others here. We know this, she knows this. She knows the type of responses to expect here. She knows that members won't pander to her foibles and insecurities . . . yet she posts anyway. THAT is worthy of recognition

- what michelle has consistently shown is that she has not learnt from her own past mistakes. If she had then we wouldn't be posting on this thread. At least this time, unlike some others, she has owned her behaviour

The main lesson here, for michelle, AND anyone else who reads this thread, is not to have the following interpretation of eBay's estimated delivery timeframe -"and today was the deadline for delivery".

I have no doubt that michelle will panic again when she thinks an item is "late" . . . what I find hard to countenance is her jumping to conclusions that the seller or Australia Post have done something wrong . . . and subsequently behave in a way likely to cost the seller money, in this case costing two sellers money, rather than recognising her own predilection to jump to the conclusion that everyone but her is at fault.

[springyzone]

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@michellebartley wrote:
@lyndal 1838
I felt like a real Klutz too.

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Michelle, you've made a lot of extra work for yourself & caused some disappointment and worry for other sellers and there's an easy way to avoid this in future.

Wait an extra 5-7 days over and above the estimated delivery date before you take any action at all in either making claims or bidding elsewhere. That will solve most problems and make life easier for you. Good luck.

[4channel]

Of course k1ooo-slr-sales , there's merit in what both you and springyzone have said and you've addressed some key points. I hope that Michelle may excercise more restraint when waiting for items. Ans patience is a virtue. As I've gotten older I've learnt to be more patient but then again I have less patience for other things. If I'm at a food court waiting to be served, sometimes I go to the next one. Funny like that.

I believe that Michelle repaid the seller that refunded her. Perhaps extra special glowing follow up feedback for that seller and the other will go down well.

BTW:  countessalmirena  did raise a couple of points too that make good sense. Also something she said a while back about a certain type of herbal tea. Hey, these things work too in relaxing. Better than cigarettes which calm at the moment and then stress later on. Also getting a cat can be a great help to calm down. Tabbys rather then Siamese and other tempermental cats would be good. I believe Michelle has a cat too, so she's got a good relaxation prop there for starters.

[k1ooo-slr-sales]

I can’t have pets

[lyndal1838]

I would think that Michelle would be stressed out if she has a cat.....they eat rats and mice which we know Michelle keeps.

[imastawka]

I believe she does indeed have a cat, Lyndal.

A black one if I'm not mistaken.

It was on the photo thread at one stage.