@ra157 wrote:
Hi Springzone,
Sorry for the tardy reply. You state,
"But what if the seller had messaged the next day, with
Sorry, I went to packet today, decided to give it a final check - and discovered xyz internally is not working. You would have a fit if I sent you this. I can't sell it like this as it does not fit the ad description so have cancelled the sale and refunded you the money"
or
Sorry I went to wrap it tonight and accidentally dropped it. It looks fine externally but I can hear something rattling around inside so have cancelled the sale and refunded.
That would be a more cunning move by the seller but not necessarily any more truthful."
With the open communication, I could then have replied, "That is most unfortunate. Thank you for your kind offer to cancel the contract. Please continue with the sale contract and mail me the items. If the items are indeed damaged, I will arrange with you to cancel the sale, send you back the items and reimburse you your postage costs. "
This thread is about how you don't believe a seller's word. Why do you expect that a seller would necessarily have to believe your word? Sure, you might say you will ask to cancel the sale and send back & reimburse a seller but as you probably know, ebay sides with buyers most of the time and if you received a broken item, all you would need to do is open a not as described case and get your money back & the seller would have to pay for return postage.
Don't assume ebay reps would find in the seller's favour. Their logical question would be -why did the seller send it if they knew it was broken? You assuring a seller you would pay return postage doesn't really cut it because people need to work within the ebay regulations as they stand, not go trying to make their own little deals.
The main point I am trying to make is that what you would write to the seller is not the correct ebay procedure and a seller would be putting themselves at risk.
There is a cancellation procedure already in place to cover damage after a sale,why on earth would a seller not follow it?
The fact you don't believe the seller or consider these regulations inadequate doesn't come into it. Those are the regulations & the seller worked within them.
I am not saying that the seller, if they followed your message, would lose the case with every ebay rep but they would with a lot of them. I've read of many cases where a seller had messages, photos etc to prove their case & still lost. As a seller, I wouldn't be willing to do it.
You would be asking the seller to send not because you actually want to buy a broken camera but because you wanted to check out if the seller was telling the truth or not. Ebay does not require the seller to provide you with that level of proof.
Let me put it another way. Say the camera had very slight damage. You received it & were angry. You could maliciously damage the camera further & even if you posted it back, how could the seller prove it was more damaged than when they sent it? They couldn't.
Or what if the seller claimed to ebay you had done more damage & you hadn't. Would you be willing to forfeit part of your refund?
Your 'solution' is not tenable.
You also state,
"The fact a message came quickly after a sale isn't necessarily proof of anything either. That could be just when a casual seller might be expected to move or wrap an item."
Or it could be that one could opine that the seller was lying.
Firstly, the oh-so conscientious seller that you are describing who did not want to send me the damaged item, then oh-so non-conscientously decides not to email me any photo,video or description of the damage to back up the assertion.
Proof of anything? In a criminal trial most probably not. But that isn't the standard here.
It isn't the standard here on the messageboard. We can suspect whatever we like and say it.
But the ebay regulation, as someone else pasted it, is quite clear. A seller might need to cancel a sale if the item is damaged, out of stock etc etc
It doesn't say the person has to upload a video or photo or anything else.
Ebay can't go against their own guidelines. They allow cancellations. They allow a seller to cancel by choosing a reason such as damage & they don't require proof.
I know you don't like that, but that is what is in place on ebay at the moment.
There are a lot of circumstances where deals don't get finalised or where stuff happens that does not, I believe, meet the spirit of the ebay guidelines, but ebay accepts the word of people. eg when people withdraw bids, they can tick a box for the reason & often just choose 'I typed in the wrong amount'. I'd be sure it's a lie 90% of the time.
If you don't agree with the current ebay procedures re cancellations, you probably need to contact ebay with suggestions.
Ebay itself would be aware that some sellers & buyers are just backing away from a deal but the thing is, they have to allow for this in their procedures. It isn't that there are no penalties, there are. If a seller is too often out of stock etc I believe they receive penalties on their account. If a person doesn't pay too often, they can get strikes which may limit their buying.
It seems to me your main beef is with ebay. You don't like the way their current regulations work. You don't like that a seller can just tick 'item is damaged' without having to prove it.
But let me ask you outright, when a seller cancels a sale 19 minutes after the end of the auction, where the seller most likely perceives too low a sale price - and the seller does not communicate with the buyer - would you opine that on the balance of probability,
a. the seller is lying or
b the seller is telling the truth?
Regards,
Renato
I think the seller is probably lying. But I don't know that for sure & actually, neither do you. Neither does ebay.
And that's the real bottom line.
