tracking says delivered but i did not receive

[ooak3]

advise  would be appreciated please

i bought a box set of dvd's 

seller sent them with tracking but not sign on delivery  the tracking say's it was delivered but i have not received it ,

it looks like it was just left at my door or even went to the wrong address 

if it was left at my door anyone walking past could see it ,theres nowhere to hide it

ebay have knocked back my claim i have a claim in with ppal now but when i rang the girl said because it says delivered i will not get

my $73.50 back

i dont know what else if anything i can do to get my money back 

i think the seller should have sent with signature required ( i do for anything $50 or over ) so i was silly and did not think to check that

they would send in the safest way possable so have i lost my $73 ?? 

[phorum_junkie*]

Of course chargebacks are connected to Paypal if the payment was made through them, that is what seller protection is all about, if the buyer goes to their bank to ask for a chargeback it is Paypal the bank will recover the money from, if the seller has the proper proof for seller protection then Paypal pay the bank if they choose not to fight it and do not take it from the seller.

If the seller does not have sufficient proof then they can either agree to the refund or they can try fighting it but it will cost them an extra $15.

[lyndal1838]

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@fixnwear wrote:

lyndal1838,

once again - you are wrong!

Once and for all - please pay attention here:

 Chargebacks have nothing to do with PP.

If both Ebay and PP decline the buyer's claim of non delivery - and seller has used tracking that is showing as "delivered" - buyer can indeed make a claim with his credit card issuer.

They in turn then contact PP to check on details, PP tells them parcel has been delivered.

They also reject the claim 99,9999 % of the time under those circumstances (according to the PP manager - the facts they have gathered over the years). But, if they do decide to believe the buyer and feel that he is a great customer of theirs (still talking about the credit card provider) they may refund him OUT OF THE BANK'S MONEY - NOT PP!

And finally - this chargeback action is most definitely NOT forcing PP to recognise and apply buyer protection - for the simple reason that buyer can't prove he didn't get it - and seller can prove  that it was delivered.

Feel free to ring PP - preferably BEFORE you issue any more misleading advice.

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How do you work out that chargebacks are nothing to do with paypal if that is how the buyer paid?

The bank makes the claim on paypal to recover the buyer's money.

I note you are quoting what you have been told by a paypal representative.....I am quoting personal experience.  In the case of the seller having paypal protection I provided a Statutory Declaration that I had not received the item and I was entitled to paypal buyer protection.

The refund came from paypal, not my bank and I believe the seller did not have the money taken from their account.

Why do you think it is OK for the buyer to be out of pocket when ebay and paypal both advertise that you should use paypal to get buyer protection.   If paypal does not do it voluntarily then the buyer has to force the issue.

[black*poppy]

Either way, isn't the seller is going to be charged for fighting the chargeback, even if they win?  I think it's about $21. 

[lyndal1838]

If the seller has seller protection as already established by winning the original dispute then I imagine paypal would also have to pay the fee.  Last time I did a chargeback (a while ago now) the fee was $15 and I certainly did not pay it.

I was originally told by the bank that if I lost the chargeback I would have to pay but as I won I did not pay.

To my way of thinking paypal would be better off providing both buyer and seller protection as they advertise, then there would not be any chargebacks for them to have to pay.

If both the buyer and the seller do nothing wrng then neither should be out of pocket.

[jensmanchester-australia]

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@black*poppy wrote:

Either way, isn't the seller is going to be charged for fighting the chargeback, even if they win?  I think it's about $21. 

---

If a seller is covered by Seller Protection and wins the chargeback case they are not charged the fee.

The actual fee Paypal is charged by banks for chargebacks is a lot more than $15.00 - I was told sometime ago what it was but I have forgotten the actual amount however it was close on $200.00. Paypal are charged this fee regardless of who is deemed to be at fault. Paypal don't like chargebacks and will often block a card from being used again through Paypal if the customer goes to the bank and does a chargeback.

[lyndal1838]

I have used a Mastercard and a Visa Debit card for the two ebay chargebacks I have done in the last 10 years and neither of them has been blocked by paypal.   They are both still active and are the only credit card and debit card that I use online.

[jensmanchester-australia]

Lyndal - they don't always block them but often do...it might also depend on the reason for the chargeback as to whether or not the card is blocked. For example they might block them it if is for unauthorised use but not if it is for an INR claim

[lyndal1838]

I can believe that Jen.  It may also have something to do with the number of claims made by the account holder.

I have put tens of thousands of $ through my paypal account over the years (many of them private transfers to family members) but have only made claims for a few hundred dollars for ebay transactions.

I was even given a priority phone number to ring them if I needed to.

[digital*ghost]

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@lyndal1838 wrote:

In the case of the seller having paypal protection I provided a Statutory Declaration that I had not received the item and I was entitled to paypal buyer protection.

---

Not anymore. In fact, not really ever, the PP user agreement has always stated that no one has an automatic entitlement to protection - more particularly in cases where the seller can prove postage. 

I wouldn't say it's ok for a buyer to be out of pocket if they didn't receive their item, obviously no one likes to lose money / items, and we all know the majority of sellers take the risk upon themselves, but I think a lot of people forget there is actually no automatic entitlement to a refund just because an item wasn't received. I'm not interested in arguing about whether eBay / PayPal / credit card policies can force or provide one, we all know they can, I'm just saying that in the grand scheme of things, it's rarely a genuine entitlement. 

[lyndal1838]

There is not much incentive for buyers to use paypal then is there.  I am aware that it is not an insurance, but if they promise both buyers and sellers protection then they need to provide it out of their own pockets if they cannot lay the blame on the seller.

I will just continue to use my Visa debit card and rely on a chargeback in the unlikely event that a claim needs to be made.

I have bought over 15000 individual items on ebay and only made about 7 or 8 claims through paypal...only 2 resulted in chargebacks.