Banging on and on about rights.......

[poddster]

......under what "right" are people paid to exist without doing anything for their payment.?

Is it just because they exist?

[this-one-time-at-bandcamp]

The unions priced workers out of a job and we are now on a downward spiral to becoming a country that depends on welfare.

If it weren't for unions, and minimum wage you'd be working for pennies, and counting your blessings..............no companies are going to pay great wages out of the goodness of their heart.

[poddster]

There is a balance, tip it too much either way and it fails. The results a evident right now. If you want good wages, then you had better make sure that there is a employer around that will pay them.

Why do you think that employers that have been around for a hundred years are going off shore? Greed? They were not greedy before.

Ever thought what will happen when they are all off shore?

We have resources but they are being shipped off shore instead of being processed here, ever wondered why that is?

[colic2bullsgirlore]

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@poddster wrote:

There is a balance, tip it too much either way and it fails. The results a evident right now. If you want good wages, then you had better make sure that there is a employer around that will pay them.

Why do you think that employers that have been around for a hundred years are going off shore? Greed? They were not greedy before.

Ever thought what will happen when they are all off shore?

We have resources but they are being shipped off shore instead of being processed here, ever wondered why that is?

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^^^^^^^^^^^

A specious argument. Employers move to maximize profit. In fact offshore processing of most things that are derived

from Australia is done becasue of our remoteness from the larger populated continents...but good old Geoffrey Blainey

documented this in 1966....."The tyranny of distance"

http://www.smh.com.au/business/australias-tyranny-of-distance-gives-way-to-the-power-of-proximity-20...

excerpt from a 2011 newspaper

IN 1966, Geoffrey Blainey wrote his famous book The Tyranny of Distance on how Australia's destiny had been shaped by its remoteness from Britain and Europe.

Coincidentally, 1966 was the same year Japan overtook Britain as the No. 1 destination for Australian shipping.

In the decades since, our integration with the Asia-Pacific region has increased exponentially.

From exporting coal and iron ore - which we still do - Australian lawyers, architects and accountants have played a key role in the development of India, western China and Indonesia.

Today, if Professor Blainey were to contemplate another book through the lens of the past four decades, his title might be The Power of Proximity to describe our more recent good fortune in being part of the Asia-Pacific region.

It is a momentum that has reached its most significant point with the announcement of the Trans-Pacific Partnership comprising (so far) nine of the key economies.

With the TPP in place, Australia will really see the power of proximity in action and the tyranny of distance no longer holding fears for trade and commerce beyond our shores.

Australia is the world's leading producer of rutile, zircon, bauxite, iron ore and ilmenite, the second largest producer of alumina, gold, lithium, manganese ore, lead and zinc, the third largest producer of uranium, and the fourth largest of silver, nickel and black coal.

For me, the crux of the offshoring debate is the ever-present but frequently ignored double standard.

We revolt whenever Australian jobs are sent elsewhere but we celebrate when they’re sent here.

We complain about developing countries taking our jobs, but we’re not resentful of the technologies that do the same thing and when small business owners use online services like Guru.com to outsource projects to freelancers overseas most of us don’t kick up a fuss.

It’s a complex debate  but also, at times, a hypocritical one.

[colic2bullsgirlore]

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In fact that has already begun, just look at the debt the country is in, just look at the debt that individuals have.

We have resources that the world craves, resources that we can not defend, but that is ok we have allies that will take it when the time is right. In the meantime we are encouraged to spend up big , all on credit.

When the piper has to be paid, who will be the ones who survive?

Give it some thought

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Bloomberg already has when if the piper played  their tune today Australia at number 22 has some big players above it

that will need to dance to the pipers tune well before us

http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst//most-government-debt-per-person-countries

1	Japan t	$99,725	$5,228.5B	242.3%	127.1M
2	Ireland t	60,356	231.6	121.0	4.6
3	United States t	58,604	17,437.9	107.3	319.3

22

Australia t

18,110

1,458.9

29.2

23.5

[icyfroth]

Here's a post I picked up off Facebook by a "United Australia" a minute ago which I totally agree with:

About 35 short years ago we had Jobs everywhere, we had Iron Ore and great steel industries, we had ship building, Car manufacturing, we built TV’s, radio’s, wa...shing machines, lawn mowers, hills hoists & furniture manufacturing.

 We built Car parts and we even made our own tyres!

We had fishing ports and cheap Petrol that was made at Stanvac SA, Bulimba Brisbane. Mortlake Sydney Refinery’s from oil brought from Bass Strait, North West Shelf and Timor Sea.

We built Aircraft, Boats and Buses. Locomotive diesel electric trains as well as the tracks and everything was “PROUDLY MADE IN AUSTRALIA”! We had Corner stores and Hardware shops all over the city and country.

We had work available as a driveway attendant at all our local Service Stations. And at ALL these places you could find a JOB!!!

We had PUBLIC UTILITIES like Power Stations, Water & Gas which would employ thousand around the Country.

Then Government sold our soul and started to Corporatise itself and began to compete instead of Govern.

Then we started going down hill! All our companies started going offshore or closing down because this new corporate government did deals with other countries under free trade agreements that allowed them to totally wipe out our business and manufacturing by selling us their cheap **bleep**.

These Foreign Countries took over our Mineral resources.

They drove our Farmers off their land and started selling it to these foreign countries and set up 457 visa’s as well which would let these countries bring in their own workers!

These things left our once beautiful Country in tatters!

Then these Politicians allowed Foreign Countries to buy our Power Stations and guaranteed them that they would always make a profit at our expense no matter what.

Now because we have lost so much the Government then realised they don't get much income anymore and have to find new ways to make money so it hits it’s own people further in the pocket.

They cut funding to our Education and over the years led us to import skilled workers because we didn't have any!

They cut funding to our Emergency Services, they cut funding to our police and Public housing.

These new Corporate Government Politicians laughed in our faces and gave themselves MASSIVE pay rises and they all pat themselves on the back knowing that we are so dumb and stupid we would not know what is going on!

Now they tell us we have to tighten our belts and lose what little we have left to pay back the MASSIVE DEBT they left us all in.
Now I drive the main roads and all I see is the empty buildings that once housed all these great manufacturing companies and I begin to cry seeing them all run down or for lease!!!

This over paid government need more taxes to live on so they are now going to force our elderly (God bless them, for they are the ones that built this Nation) back into the workforce until they are 70. and tell everyone to go out and get a JOB!!
So can someone in this new Corporate Government tell us EXACTLY WHERE THESE BLOODY JOBS ARE???????????????????????

[***super_nova***]

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@chameleon54 wrote:

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My 15 year old son who has mental health problems and would be a prime dole candidate decided he wanted an after school job earlier this week. . It took him two days to land his first job, and he wrote the application and took care of the interview ( clothes, taxi there etc. ) himself. Its only flipping burgers at KFC, but he has got a great work ethic and he is as proud as punch with himself.

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That is great, but that means that there is a KFC near you or that you are able/willing to drive him and collect him.  Many kids do not have that.  And few hours a day is not enough if he was not at school and i he needed to earn enough to support himself.   Basically, his job is not a job that would take a kid off the dole.

[wilk1149]

If we all become senators then no one will be unemployed. We'd all make great money so the economy would flourish and we'd get true democracy because we'd all have a vote where it counts. Can hardly call what we have now democracy as voting in a bunch of liars that then turn around and do whatever they want is not democratic

[***super_nova***]

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@poddster wrote:

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For how many are you happy to foot the bill?

1, 10, 100, 1000, 10000 or even more?

You have not thought it through have you?

What if you were asked to put your money where your mouth is to substantiate your boast?

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In the after WW2 the % of migrants and refugees, comparing to Australian population,  was much greater than it is now.  That meant that there were fewer tax payers paying for the immigration camps to be built, and the people housed there to be fed, and paid I believe small pocket money.  Many were there for couple of years until they were able to get a work, which also was not easy.  If you were in Bonegilla, then you and your family were supported by the taxpayers. 

I recall that back 40 years ago, young strong men could roll up in the morning to a building site and as long they had their union card they could do a shift.  There were plenty of manual jobs, now there are none.  Few years back I took my friend's grand child to one of the job agencies, and while waiting for him, I looked at some of the jobs listed.  There were things like "parsley buncher"  experience essential!  Everything was experience essential .......... 

[chameleon54]

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@gleee58 wrote:

I believe there are many others who choose to accept long term payments as they are either too proud to accept the jobs that are available or are just too plain lazy to support themselves and their family.

If they're on benefits they have to apply for jobs and accept if offered, regardless of what it is.  Often if they have never had a job they struggle to get accepted for a rolewhen there are plenty of those with a work record available. It  can become a vicious circle which leads to despair and marginalisation. 

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Friends had an apricot orchard. Many of the dole recipients would be sent there by centrelink to work. The vast majority did not last a week. Often they where " feeling ill and had to go home " by the first lunch break. Centrelink didnt care. These people knew the system and how to play it. There was not the resources in place to police the policies that should have made these people stick at the job.

My aunt worked in a realestate office untill  very recently. She would get dozens of people come in each week and apply for work as real estate agents. They had no qualifications and no chance in he!! of getting this sort of job. It was just a ploy to say they had applied for a job to meet the requirements.

Its these sorts of people that this thread is about. Those who are scamming the system, taking money and services that should be available for those in genuine need.

This is the really sad bit. The PC brigade that are jumping up and down at the suggestion that there may be a portion of social recipients who are bludging off of everybody else, seem to fail to recognise that the people most affected by the bludgers are those who genuinly need  societies support the most. The elderly without superannuation, the deserted mums with young kids, the genuinly disabled and genuinly unemployed. Every dollar the lazy bludgers take, comes dirctly from those genuine people most in need.

[chameleon54]

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@***super_nova*** wrote:

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@chameleon54 wrote:

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My 15 year old son who has mental health problems and would be a prime dole candidate decided he wanted an after school job earlier this week. . It took him two days to land his first job, and he wrote the application and took care of the interview ( clothes, taxi there etc. ) himself. Its only flipping burgers at KFC, but he has got a great work ethic and he is as proud as punch with himself.

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That is great, but that means that there is a KFC near you or that you are able/willing to drive him and collect him.  Many kids do not have that.  And few hours a day is not enough if he was not at school and i he needed to earn enough to support himself.   Basically, his job is not a job that would take a kid off the dole.

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True........, but it does teach him a work ethic and will help him to get a "real job" later when he leaves school....... My 21 year old nephew who works the 10 pm to 6 am graveyard shift at Maccas also mentioned in the same post WOULD be on the dole if not for the job. ( and he travels 30 minutes on public transport to get to there) .

Too many uni grads with a piece of paper would rather take the dole, living at home with mum and dad, rather than work at maccas at midnight. As poddy said, they are just waiting for the high paid job of their dreams to fall in their lap.