Heaven and hell is real

[karliandjacko]

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@ufo_investigations wrote:

Someone said earlier that we all worship the same God. It was suggested Islam worship same god as us. I don't agree with this at all. The First Commandment makes it clear about who I am to worship. Secondly if a Muslim believes it is the same God why don't Muslims convert to Catholic if the God is the same? Allah is their supreme holy god they wont convert. That answers that question in case someone else is wondering.

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That's where it all (the argument) gets silly.

Of course it's the same god. The stories and characters are the same, just told from dfferent perspectives.

It's the insanity of our era that otherwise rational people will fight over their interpretations of ancient stories, imo.

[the_great_she_elephant]

I just cant quite grasp the whole three being one thing...I guess thats why I'm not a catholic. 

I can no lomger grasp the whole God thing, which is why I am an atheist.

I was brought up aCcatholic, I was a practising Catholic for most of my life and I tried really hard to hold onto my beliefs, but logic and common sense kept getting in the way and in the end iI had to  agree with Stephen Hawking that as far as I could see a Scientific explanation for  the Universe and our place in it made a lot more sense than a religious one - especially as no two religions seemed able to agree on exactly what the religious explanation was.

I do believe that before anything existed it must have been possible for it to exist, and that possibility - I call it infinite potential - could  be described as God, but to me, the idea some  spiritual entity complete with human attributes (love, anger jealousy etc) who somehow conjured everything into existence just doesn't make sense. 

So far I have never found a single 'believer' who was able to give a  practical answer to my question What is God. 

[rabbitearbandicoot]

now, I could have sworn I ........ never mind.

[softail-joanie]

KRS-One:: Higher Level- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-vdKiGJM9M

After seven years of rockin'
How do you rate me?
Poorly or greatly?
Everybody seems to be goin' for their's lately
Yo mad heads be needin' money
So listen very close as I conduct this little study
See it's, funny to me, you can watch TV
And give up your life trying to be all you can be
In the Army
Not knowin' your history
You either fight and die or come back home in misery

Yo get with me, I deal with reality
Loosen your mind to the truth, and don't get mad at me
No politican can give you peace
If you trust Jesus, why do you vote for a beast?
Emancipation is long over due
So overcome procrastination
Because freedom is within you
For some reason we think we're free
So we'll never be
Because we haven't recognized slavery
You're still a slave, look at how you behave
Debatin' on where and when and how and what Massa gave

You wanna know how we screwed up from the beginning?
We accepted our opressor's religion
So in the case of slavery it ain't hard
Because it's right in the eyes of THEIR God
Where is our God, the God that represents us?
The God that looks like me, the God that I can trust?
A God of peace and love, not mass hysteria
I don't want a God that blesses America
I could never really vote for the devil
Let me take you to a higher level...

Verse Two:
Title, take the title from the Bible we can get there
Rip the title from off the front of the Bible, God don't live there
Too many inconsistencies, too many mysteries
Picture the Pope and the Vatican, laughing and drinking and singing and
Kissing me
I stand with God whether I'm paid or whether I'm cryin' broke
I like to ask these politicans would Jesus vote?
The way we view God is a freakin' shame
Church is to blame
We trust God, but bomb Hussein
We simply lovin' the scripture
Same scripture that whipped 'cha
Sooner it'll hit 'cha
Religion's gettin' richer

With that European version of Christ made into a picture
Our society's gettin' sicker, and sicker, and sicker...
Like liquor, we are God-Intoxicated
Not to the true God, but the one the government created
The same governments tellin' people to vote
I pray to God because the people have lost hope
You either vote for the mumps or the measels
Whether you vote for the lesser of two evils, you vote for evil
Politics and God are not equal
But the education if you don't guard, is really lethal

People have more respect for a holy book
Than they do for a cow on a meat hook
Belivers of Jesus be denouncing Satan on every level
But every Halloween they're dressin' like devils
I pray to you for the light you might give them
Mother make them know that you're livin' with them
You begin them and end them in silence
Frankly, if they knew you, they would understand violence
I pray to you for the Pope and the Vatican
Have mercy Mother, cause I know that you're mad at them

The White Jesus deceived us awhile ago
And Pope Julius the Second paid Michaelangelo
I know this happened in 1519 yet
This is the image we can't seem to forget
Vote for God, don't vote for the Devil
Let me take you to a higher level...

[k0llectable5]

She-ele, I dont believe there is a practical explanation for what God actually is.  As humans we will always have a hard time grasping something that is said to exist outside of time and space as we know it.  For some I think it is more of a feeling inside.  It's also an acknowledgemnt of wonderment at the world around us. It's a mindset to believe in "something" rather than "nothing" or rather, that life is a gift from god rather than a whole heap of random occurances that somehow perfected the environment for life as we know it to flourish.  The belief in God can help people to step away from their self indulgences and obsession with the materialistic aspects of life and, from a Christian perspective, the belief in Jesus can steer one down the path of righteousness by adherring to his teachings and therefore bringing one closer to God through prayer, not just prayer but living ones life in a way that will please God (according to Jesus' teachings in the New Testament) 

Is it to ensure a place in heaven? Who knows.  I'm not going to live my life thinking that what I do will ensure me a place in heaven, because then I'm always thinking about dying.  Imma die no matter what I do, so while I'm alive on this earth I will strive to be the best person I can be because this life is way too short and the last thing I want to do is think about death the whole time and I will use Jesus as an inspriation for the "right" way to live.  Knowing full well that I'm not perfect, I will sin from time to time, but I will also repent when I feel it necessary to do so and I will pray to God (through Jesus) to help me to make the right decisions in life.

And one last question for UFO.  Now if this is too personal please tell me to mind my own business.  But I was just wondering Do you pray?  If you do who do you pray to?  Do you pray directly to God or to Jesus or? Because My Nonna was a devout catholic (bless her soul) and she used rosery beads when she prayed, and as far as I know it was Hail Mary full of grace blessed art thou amougnst women etc that she used to chant over and over as she held her rosery beads.   

[the_great_she_elephant]

Thank you, SW that was beautifully expressed and there is a lot in it I agree with. I do find a sense of wonderment in studying the world around me. and I agree I could not find a better role model for living my own life  than the life of Jesus as described in the gospels. 

[ufo_investigations]

re:

"And one last question for UFO.  Now if this is too personal please tell me to mind my own business.  But I was just wondering Do you pray?  If you do who do you pray to?  Do you pray directly to God or to Jesus or? Because My Nonna was a devout catholic (bless her soul) and she used rosery beads when she prayed, and as far as I know it was Hail Mary full of grace blessed art thou amougnst women etc that she used to chant over and over as she held her rosery beads.   "

Answer = Yes, to God

[Anonymous]

i agree. it was beautifully expressed and even

to a non believer - how can anyone fault it? -

nothing delusional or irrational about that.

[k0llectable5]

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@ufo_investigations wrote:

re:

"And one last question for UFO.  Now if this is too personal please tell me to mind my own business.  But I was just wondering Do you pray?  If you do who do you pray to?  Do you pray directly to God or to Jesus or? Because My Nonna was a devout catholic (bless her soul) and she used rosery beads when she prayed, and as far as I know it was Hail Mary full of grace blessed art thou amougnst women etc that she used to chant over and over as she held her rosery beads.   "

Answer = Yes, to God

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So can I just ask, where does Mary fit into your religious beliefs? 

Thankyou to both She-ele and Julia.  I appreciate your kind words.  And I'm kinda glad that my explanation sounds rational even to non believers such as yourselves.

Even though She-ele, you may call yourself an athiest, from your posts you seem to me like someone who wants to believe but because of the "hair splitting" elements to all the seperate Christian cults you've become disenfranchised with the Christian faith as a whole.  Which kinda makes me sad.  Life imo is better lived with Jesus in your heart, mind and soul.  

FTR I dont subscribe to any one particular denomination, I have even studied with JW's but I find them too obsessed with the kingdom and ressurection, it's almost like they are a religion focused around what will happen when Jesus comes back to rule the earth from heaven, and how wonderful it will be for humanity to live (or be ressurected) into this kingdom of Christ.  I'm more interested in what I can do now while I'm alive, not fantasize about what is going to happen after I've passed away.

[the_great_she_elephant]

Even though She-ele, you may call yourself an athiest, from your posts you seem to me like someone who wants to believe but because of the "hair splitting" elements to all the seperate Christian cults you've become disenfranchised with the Christian faith as a whole.  Which kinda makes me sad.  Life imo is better lived with Jesus in your heart, mind and soul

No it's more basic than that. I simply do not believe there is a God - other than in the sense I explained in my earlier post. I am quite comfortable with that, it hasn't destroyed my appreciation of this wonderful world I live in or my satisfaction that against incalculable odds I actually came into existence and am here to enjoy it.

Having said that, however, I do accept  that this is my personal conviction and that there does exist a possibility that one day I may be proved wrong. This is where I  differ from so many believers from so many religions who just know (based on very flimsy evidence, or sometimes no evidence at all)- that they have the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and everybody else is wrong.