Please find another time for Protest

If you're fighting to protect people's lives, why not start by not risking the innocent lives of everyone elses. Find another time. I will have more respect for you. I was just saying the other day: Thank God that Australians aren't as crazy as Americans and we have at least some common sense not to choose this time to protest. 

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@icyfroth wrote:

@*kazumi* wrote:

@chameleon54 wrote:

@*kazumi* wrote:

It is not about his crime; the point is that NOBODY should be killed by  police or prison guard.

"The Dunghutti man from Kempsey died in Sydneyโ€™s Long Bay jail on 29 December 2015 after guards rushed his cell to stop him eating biscuits, dragged him to another cell, then held him face down and had him injected with a sedative. Before he died he said 12 times that he could not breathe."

 

Why not let police shoot any suspect on the street, like they do in Philippines; saves time and money?

 

 


You dont have to go to the Phillippines to see this. It happened in Australia just before the first BLM rallies. .........Oh hang on that was a person with mental health issues Australian police shot dead. His life doesnt matter to most of the people who post here. He wasnt from a Politically Correct minority was he ?


That is not true, the problem is that it is disproportionally black people in the USA and the 1st nation people here who are killed in custody.  There is no epidemic of European background people being murdered, or white kids being jailed for stealing packet of biscuits.  And the consequences for the killer cops/guards are also different. 

 

BUT on the whole the protests are against police brutality against everybody.   And of course, there are times when killing somebody is wholly justified; just like the young man who was stabbing an older woman in the park, and continued stabbing her as the police approached.  I think she is still in the hospital fighting for her life.  If he was not killed at that precise moment, her condition would no doubt be worse with every additional stab wound. 


Oh but there was.

 

Back in the days of founding the fledgeling colony of Australia.

 

Thankfully we've come a long way since then.

 

Unfortunatley, we have not been able to carry the indigeneous population with us.

 

Back in the early days of white settlement, there were all kinds of epidemics. Smallpox, TB, venereal disease. Which of course was passed on to the indigenous population.

 

Maybe not of European (Brits tend no to indentify themselves as "European") but there were certainly poor (very poor to the point of starvation) white people in England being ground into death by poverty, thanks to the "Aristocracy". People so poor they had to steal (loaves of bread, packets of biscuits or whatever), to even survive to the next day.

 

And they were not treated kindly by the lawmakers of the day. Hangings were very common.

 

Try reading up on  your history, if you are of British convict descent. Even if you are of later British migrant descent. Or of an orphan transported to Australia to be used as slave labour.

 

White Australia did not treat it's aboriginal inhabitants kindly, that's for sure, but they didn't treat their white "subjects"  (transportees, child labour) any better, that's for double sure.

 

What's the old saying?

 

Clean up your own doorstep before you go critiscising your next door neighbour's.

 

Or words to that effect.

 


The Brits did not treat their white convict transportees to the new colonies of the  Americas very kindly, either. They were not averse to sending orphaned children of parents, who could not make a living,  to the colonies as cheap labour. 

Neither did the French, in Canada, New Caledonia, etc.

 

White slavery was not uncommon. Ever.

 

Read up.

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The Bob Delusion wrote; Yes it's disproportionally black people because they committ more crimes. Duh. If you have more white people in jail, you'll see police killing more of them.

 

1) We do have more white people than indigenous people in our prisons; and probably more white prisoners than indigenous ones die in custody. The key word is disproportionate; (too large or too small in comparison with something else.)

 

2)To state that black people 'commit more crimes' is ambiguous to say the least. Do you mean that statistically more black people commit  crime than white people do? Or do you mean a black offender statistically commits more crimes than a white offender?  

 

3) One of the reasons why indigenous people are overrepresented in prison populations is because they are statistically more  likely than white people to be jailed for minor offences. 

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icyfroth wrote: White Australia did not treat it's aboriginal inhabitants kindly, that's for sure, but they didn't treat their white "subjects"  (transportees, child labour) any better, that's for double sure.

 

That is, in fact,  blatantly untrue. My husband's first Australian ancestors were all convicts, who went on to become some of  the earliest settlers on the Hawkesbury - on land granted to them by the Government. What do you imagine happened to the previous owners of that land?  

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

The Bob Delusion wrote; Yes it's disproportionally black people because they committ more crimes. Duh. If you have more white people in jail, you'll see police killing more of them.

 

1) We do have more white people than indigenous people in our prisons; and probably more white prisoners than indigenous ones die in custody. The key word is disproportionate; (too large or too small in comparison with something else.)

 

2)To state that black people 'commit more crimes' is ambiguous to say the least. Do you mean that statistically more black people commit  crime than white people do? Or do you mean a black offender statistically commits more crimes than a white offender?  

 

3) One of the reasons why indigenous people are overrepresented in prison populations is because they are statistically more  likely than white people to be jailed for minor offences. 


Because they have been disenfranchised by white settlers taking over their territories, or normal procedures of general living.

 

Ok, White settlers had not much choice, because of poor living conditions in Britain ( why?)

 

Black Indigenous ppl in Aus were doing ok until the Brits moved in.

 

After that, they were persecuted, hunted, and coralled into communities of poverty, much the same as the poor of Britain were (Irish eg).

 

It was a British pattern.

 

See the British Rajj.

 

See Rhodesia. 

 

 

 

 

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

icyfroth wrote: White Australia did not treat it's aboriginal inhabitants kindly, that's for sure, but they didn't treat their white "subjects"  (transportees, child labour) any better, that's for double sure.

 

That is, in fact,  blatantly untrue. My husband's first Australian ancestors were all convicts, who went on to become some of  the earliest settlers on the Hawkesbury - on land granted to them by the Government. What do you imagine happened to the previous owners of that land?  


What do you think?

 

They got "sent off"

 

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

icyfroth wrote: White Australia did not treat it's aboriginal inhabitants kindly, that's for sure, but they didn't treat their white "subjects"  (transportees, child labour) any better, that's for double sure.

 

That is, in fact,  blatantly untrue. My husband's first Australian ancestors were all convicts, who went on to become some of  the earliest settlers on the Hawkesbury - on land granted to them by the Government. What do you imagine happened to the previous owners of that land?  


It is not blatantly untrue. That may be the case for your husband's first Australian ancestors, but it was very different for the ancestors of many other Australians who were given the title of "government men". That's was the snazzy British term for convict slaves.

 

https://sydneylivingmuseums.com.au/convict-sydney/day-life-convict

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@not_for_sale2025 wrote:

@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

icyfroth wrote: White Australia did not treat it's aboriginal inhabitants kindly, that's for sure, but they didn't treat their white "subjects"  (transportees, child labour) any better, that's for double sure.

 

That is, in fact,  blatantly untrue. My husband's first Australian ancestors were all convicts, who went on to become some of  the earliest settlers on the Hawkesbury - on land granted to them by the Government. What do you imagine happened to the previous owners of that land?  


It is not blatantly untrue. That may be the case for your husband's first Australian ancestors, but it was very different for the ancestors of many other Australians who were given the title of "government men". That's was the snazzy British term for convict slaves.

 

https://sydneylivingmuseums.com.au/convict-sydney/day-life-convict

Quote

All convicts started off as "government men." but once they had served their term they were given the opportunity to become landholders or business entrepreneurs and those with enough brains and drive to  succeed were able to do  extremely well for themsleves.  one of Mr Elephant's convict ancestors made a fortune out of shipping and shipbuilding and eventually returned to England with the fortune he had amassed and lived out the rest of his life in comfort in a London mansion. Compare that to the treatment meted out to the indigenous population.

 

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:



All convicts started off as "government men." but once they had served their term they were given the opportunity to become landholders or business entrepreneurs and those with enough brains and drive to  succeed were able to do  extremely well for themsleves.  one of Mr Elephant's convict ancestors made a fortune out of shipping and shipbuilding and eventually returned to England with the fortune he had amassed and lived out the rest of his life in comfort in a London mansion. Compare that to the treatment meted out to the indigenous population.

 


Many convicts either did not survive to serve their term, were malnourished, injured through floggings etc., or were not generally healthy enough to pursue a future. Several escaped and teamed up with the Aboriginals because they shared a hatred of the soldiers and law enforcers. You seem to be implying that those who did not succeed in achieving a future were too stupid or without drive! Do you really believe that?

 

The convicts were forcibly removed from their land, forced to obey British rule, and brutalised if they did not obey. Compare that to the indigenous population. Sound familiar?

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The convicts were British, so they were as required to follow British law as they were in Britain. Although not following the law is what got them sent here.

 

The aborigines were already here and had British law imposed on them. An entirely different matter.

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@*kazumi* wrote:

@chameleon54 wrote:

@*kazumi* wrote:

It is not about his crime; the point is that NOBODY should be killed by  police or prison guard.

"The Dunghutti man from Kempsey died in Sydneyโ€™s Long Bay jail on 29 December 2015 after guards rushed his cell to stop him eating biscuits, dragged him to another cell, then held him face down and had him injected with a sedative. Before he died he said 12 times that he could not breathe."

 

Why not let police shoot any suspect on the street, like they do in Philippines; saves time and money?

 

 


You dont have to go to the Phillippines to see this. It happened in Australia just before the first BLM rallies. .........Oh hang on that was a person with mental health issues Australian police shot dead. His life doesnt matter to most of the people who post here. He wasnt from a Politically Correct minority was he ?


That is not true, the problem is that it is disproportionally black people in the USA and the 1st nation people here who are killed in custody.  There is no epidemic of European background people being murdered, or white kids being jailed for stealing packet of biscuits.  And the consequences for the killer cops/guards are also different. 

 

BUT on the whole the protests are against police brutality against everybody.   And of course, there are times when killing somebody is wholly justified; just like the young man who was stabbing an older woman in the park, and continued stabbing her as the police approached.  I think she is still in the hospital fighting for her life.  If he was not killed at that precise moment, her condition would no doubt be worse with every additional stab wound. 


You should do a little research before making these sorts of posts. While America certainly has its issues, these cant automatically be transposed to Australia. 

 

Your statement was true ( in Australia ) up until the mid 1990,s when more indigenous Australians ( per 1000 indigenous prison inmates ) died in custody than non indigenous Australians by a factor of around 1.3.

 

Since the mid 1990,s Australia's Correctional facilities have taken extensive steps to address this problem and have been so successful that indigenous Australians are now around 20% less likely than non indigenous Australians to die in prison.

 

The real problem is that indigenous Australians are simply at much higher risk of ending up in prison. The reasons for this are extremely complex and include lower educational outcomes, higher levels of alcohol and substance abuse than the general population ( caused by issues of social exclusion, chronic unemployment etc. ) , housing and employment instability, socially entrenched domestic violence etc.

 

What the PC and BLM crowd don't seem to understand is that by endorsing divisionist politics and constantly harping back to the mistakes of colonisation etc. they are actually increasing the levels of anger and hurt felt by indigenous Australians rather than finding common ground, encouraging acceptance of past mistakes promoting social inclusion and working towards a better future.

 

The nett result is that by encouraging division and anger, the BLM / PC supporters are actually increasing the risk of indigenous Australians falling foul of the law and ending up in prison. And with that comes the inherent risk that all prisoners ( black or white ) face of Death in Custody.

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