Should other countries intervene in Iraq?

[nero_bolt]

Should other countries intervene in Iraq? and the other countries inclues Australia 

Its turning into a real mess and blood bath... over run by extremist and terrorists 

Iraq: 'extreme, brutal' Isis fuels humanitarian crisis

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/15/iraq-extreme-brutal-isis-fuels-humanitarian-crisis-says...

Twitter forced to act after Iraq executions live tweeted

The Sydney Morning Herald reports graphic images of the executions of Iraqi soldiers were live tweeted by members of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant as they happened late last week.

The photos showed scores of soldiers rounded up into trucks before being forced face-down in the dirt with their hands tied behind their backs before being executed by automatic weapons.

On early Saturday ISIL tweeted it had executed 1700 Shiite soldiers, but the figure has not been confirmed by human rights groups.

Read more at http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/06/15/13/38/twitter-forced-to-act-after-iraq-executions-live-t...

Read more at http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/06/15/13/38/twitter-forced-to-act-after-iraq-executions-live-t...

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/06/15/04/25/iran-offers-help-if-us-targets-iraq-rebels

[the_great_she_elephant]

---

@tall_bearded01 wrote:

How does my solution work?  Take a long look at Afghanistan.  Yes still has its problems and they are major ones which means they have a long way to go.  However it is now a far better place than it was when the Taliban were in control.

So is that not a far better outcome than yours which appears to be to simply stand back and watch as the  ethnic and sectarian cleansing to do its job. 

Sorry but I’m cut from a different cloth.

---

I am taking a long look at Afghanistan - and my crystal ball says 3 - 5 years before the present regime collapses.

[the_great_she_elephant]

I may be  an atheist, but I think Luke was onto something here. Luke 11: 24 - 26

“When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean and put in order.  Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first.”

[tall_bearded01]

I think you need a basic history lesson.

In 1939 the Germany invaded and annexed the western half of Poland, with the USSR invading and occupying the Eastern half.  Then in 1940 Germany took the rest of the country and attacked Russia.

Then 4 or so years later the Russians drove the Germans out of Poland and kept on going straight through to Berlin.

That is the annexation of Poland by the Soviets had nothing to do with the Allies declaring war on Germany, because at the time war was declared Stalin was allied with Hitler.

[tall_bearded01]

Yes the present regime may be replaced by another. 

However this will be against the background of, for the first time since the Mongol’s invaded on their way to India, that the minorities in that country have had a taste of what life is like elsewhere, and my guess is, they’ll put up fight if someone want them to return back to the good old days.

You see the seeds have already been sown, in that there is nothing more dangerous in a patriarchal society (which is essentially what Afghanistan is) than an educated woman who has leaned to say NO.

[the_great_she_elephant]

That is the annexation of Poland by the Soviets had nothing to do with the Allies declaring war on Germany, because at the time war was declared Stalin was allied with Hitler.

Where did I say that one was a direct result of the other?

Fact: In 1939 England issued an ultimatum to Hitler to withdraw his troops from Poland. When this did not happen Britain - and France declared war on Germany.

Fact: At Yalta February 1945 and again at  Potsdam,August 1945  Britain and US reached an agreement that gave the USSR control over Poland.

http://buchanan.org/blog/pjb-the-betrayal-of-poland-1939-1945-363

Britain had gone to war and lost 400,000 men and an empire for Poland’s independence. Yet, as Poland receded into the darkness, not once did Churchill vent upon Stalin the oratory he used so often on Hitler. The rape of Poland by Hitler and Stalin was the moral cause that precipitated the war. Yet, Churchill and FDR, to appease Stalin, meekly acquiesced in the betrayal of that moral cause.

[tall_bearded01]

Fact: Before Hitler attacked Poland he notified the Stalin of his intention and invited him to take part.

Fact: In 1940 Hitler attacked the Soviet Union and at the same time extended his reach into the Balkans.  Some countries he invaded, others simply became allies, and with others it was a bit of both.

Fact:  During the next 4 years the Soviets progressively pushed the Germans back and in doing so annexed every country in their path and aside from reaching a separate peace with Germany and using the combine forces of Germany and the western allies to push them back, there simply was nothing that the allies could do to stop that process.

That is yes allowing the Soviets to keep what they had taken was a gross error of judgement, especially when you consider that at the time the only country with a nuclear capacity was the USA. So, if you saying that instead of giving in to the Soviet demands, the western allies should have done what Paton recommended - that is push though Germany and on to Moscow, - then you’ll get no argument out of me. 

As for the Poles, I think you sympathise are somewhat misplaced.  There is a reason why the death camps were located there.  It’s because, apart from Russia, this was the only place in Europe where there existence would be tolerated by the civilian population.  Then there was the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, where the Polish Free Army stood back and did nothing, except, when it was finished, tack down an sell to the Germans any Jews which may have escaped.  

[pablo12_2007]

Te very dangerous thing is that if it left unchecked it could very well signal a global go ahead for a full scale jihardist up rising.  That world is a very scary place, indeed.  Left unchecked its will be unlikely that the fighting will stay with in those boarders.  If Bush and his stupid cronies had not taken out Iraj then the previous power structure would still be in place and better positioned, as they were to deal with this sort of fanatisism. 

[the_great_she_elephant]

Fact:  During the next 4 years the Soviets progressively pushed the Germans back and in doing so annexed every country in their path and aside from reaching a separate peace with Germany and using the combine forces of Germany and the western allies to push them back, there simply was nothing that the allies could do to stop that process.

And that was the entire point of my original comment. Rushing to arms, in order to defend someone's liberty does not lways produce the desired result. And no, I am not saying the allies should not have gone to war, nor do I believe it was pimarily concern for Poland that prompted the declaration of war. I am simply saying that in the end, despite all the rhetoric and bloodshed, our support for Poland proved to be totally ineffectual.

Whether or not Poland deserved our support or sympathy is beside the point.

[boris1gary]

Why this thread has moved on to misinformation in regards to WW11 is unknown to me, however back to the thread topic - Malcolm Fraser has a very good article in todays Guardian.....

When it comes to Iraq, Australia needs to look after its own national interest

Judging by Tony Abbott's US trip, we can probably assume that Australia will do whatever America asks. It would be a total abrogation of Australian sovereignty.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/16/when-it-comes-to-iraq-australia-needs-to-look-a...

[tall_bearded01]

And as for your comments re Churchill having acquiesced to Stalin

.

Is this the same Churchill who, in 1919, was instrumental in the Britains decision to send troops to fight the Bolsheviks?

Is this the same Churchill who throughout the 1920’s and 30’s was the lone voice in Britain attacking Stalin at every opportunity “as one of the two great evils of our time”.  The other of course being Hitler.

Is this the same Churchill who, having been advised byTruman that they should let Stalin keep what he had taken, is quoted as saying “An Iron curtain has now descended on Eastern Europe”.

That is, the one voice above all others attacking Stalin at every opportunity was that of Churchill.  Unfortunately then as is now, too few were prepared to listen until it was too late.