seems mandatory vaccine is the go for the work place ....

[rogespeed]

The vaccine for covid , seems now being mandated for those currently employed

Seems like a violation of the existing conditions of employment for many , particularly whereby there is no mandate for  influenza vaccine requirement

Of course a harmless vaccine proven to mitigate against deadly covid-19 is desirable however some may object for whatever reason - and as are currently employed , one wonders the moral efficacy of coerced inoculation, as is clearly a workplace agreement item 

There is talk of dismissing currently employed workers for non-compliance

This to me would violate existing workplace agreements and a violation - fully paid leave would be the only  ethical way of excluding current employees ( unless all are retrenched then re-employed under covid safe clauses ) 

If there was no alternate to vaccination a strong case could be argued

But there are alternatives - periodic pcr tests,  daily check-in fast antigen tests , 1 minute on the treadmill 

The vaccines are released under emergency use meaning are experimental , so clearly fall under international law regarding strictly no forcing of experimental treatments

All that i am saying is that while inoculation is the most convenient , controllable and cost effective procedure , there should be an alternate process that meets workplace requirements

[chameleon54]

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

Chameleon wrote:  As you have rightly pointed out. That is the way you have chosen to interpret and twist my post. It certainly is not what was written. 

Chameleon previously wrote:

"The risks in farming are real, it is not simply a statistical blip, but we just accept the risk and get on with it. It does keep life interesting though. "

"people in general dont experience full lives."

Staying safe is only for  wimps.

"They go to their " safe " work, pushing a computer mouse all day,"

 Only those working in an unsafe environment can produce anything of value.

(they) "drive their " safe" car home on the " safe " road"

We should do away with road rules and, presumably, drivers' licences, and let everyone take their chances in a free-for-all

"They live in a " safe " little house ( made of ticky tacky )"

 Suburban houses are less well constructed than rural ones.

(they have) " identical " safe " neighbours."

Neighbours should be enemies not friends.

the kids play a "safe" sport."

 Children should be encouraged to take up dangerous sports.

Little of value is achieved and absolutely NOTHING is actually done or produced. 

Only those working in an unsafe environment can produce anything of value.

Its no wonder people are so mentally damaged and bored

Staying safe is only for  wimps.

My  inferences (in red)  were drawn from those statements- noting in particular your deliberate use of inverted commas round the word "safe".  Perhaps you could enlighten us as to what inferences you expected us to draw.

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I dont mind having a rational discussion with you She el, if you can do the same. But you are still avoiding the simple question - Do you own a business and how many people do you employ ? As you have so much to say on the topic, the question is highly relevant as to your experience to comment on the subject and how much weight we should place on any comments you may wish to offer.

The comments on safety where based around the fact that there is an element of danger in everything we do. The more we do, the more we are exposed to unexpected dangers. Farmers do a lot of different tasks so face unexpected dangers constantly. In my case encounters with TWO deadly brown snakes yesterday.....🙄

Many in society have become so risk averse that they simply dont do anything and do their best to restrict others from doing anything either. The result is that many individuals are almost paralysed by fear of the unexpected and live monotonous, boring lives in an attempt to avoid unexpected dangers. Businesses are also so constrained by regulation and red tape that they simply cant operate effectively and economically anymore. 

My reference to the cost of building houses is an example that anyone, ( experience in business ownership or not ) can relate too. I held a building supervisers licence for around a decade and regularly worked in the building industry up until 2012.  The issue of over regulation was already putting a lot of pressure on house prices then and the red tape and associated costs have increased dramatically since, to the point that housing is becoming unaffordable for many.

Over regulation and red tape has increased to the point where many businesses simply cant function effectively and many are closing as a result.

She el, do you run a business and how many people do you employ ?

Spoiler

Save you the trouble of calling BS

[the_great_she_elephant]

 But you are still avoiding the simple question - Do you own a business and how many people do you employ 

See my post 39.

[domino-710]

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@chameleon54 wrote:

The comments on safety where based around the fact that there is an element of danger in everything we do. The more we do, the more we are exposed to unexpected dangers. Farmers do a lot of different tasks so face unexpected dangers constantly. In my case encounters with TWO deadly brown snakes yesterday.....🙄

Many in society have become so risk averse that they simply dont do anything and do their best to restrict others from doing anything either. The result is that many individuals are almost paralysed by fear of the unexpected and live monotonous, boring lives in an attempt to avoid unexpected dangers. 

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One doesn't have to live ' in the country ' to come across a couple of brown snakes - just ask the horses.

Give travelling the world a go - brown snakes have nothing on some situations. 🤣

[domino-710]

Just a question - why haven't you asked this question of 4channel - does he own a business if so how many does he employ. ????

[k1ooo-slr-sales]

4channel doesn't answer questions

[domino-710]

No - but - really - really - big on - discussion. 😀

[springyzone]

I have to say there are plenty of times I shake my head and think some things these days are just taken too far.

But at the same time, I think the public can be a bit fickle. For example, after bushfires here some years ago, there were calls for an explanation as to why people had been allowed to build in ome of those places anyway and why building codes weren't stricter. Outrage at officialdom for letting us down.

Fast forward to where stricter building codes were put in place for bushfire prone areas and now we have outrage from those wishing to build and they claim it is being priced out of the range of ordinary people. 

The media has pushed both these opposing views, ironically. It goes with the flow a bit.

And because I have an interest in family history, I often look back at ancestors where young children as young as 3 and 4 were put to work in the straw plaiting industry. It died out by the 1880s or so when school became compulsory. But the thing is, would we be happy to see those conditions today, or young children down mines? Would we be happy to see women excluded from being pilots etc? And aren't safer built cars etc something to aim for? Even seatbelts have saved a lot of life.

I agree with you that sometimes our regulations may have gone a step too far but I think change is often imperfectly implemented. But all life is change, nothing is going to stay the same.

[4channel]

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@lynsh84 wrote:

I am pretty sure that the Anzacs did not fight for the rights of shop assistants to refuse to abide by their Terms of Employment.

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Aussie soldiers fought in 2 world wars to stop evil empires. What is taking place with huge corporations which appear to be influencing our politicians today who are dictating to us the terms our health would make the brave soldiers turn in their graves.

The company Monsanto Bayer which is responsible for genetically altering our food and putting chemicals in our environment, causing cancer, mental issues and a whole range of other issues has a historical link to none other than Adolf Hitler and the Nazis.

See below

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Greenpeace

Monsanto: Busted

Rex Weyler3 May 2019

Monsanto, perhaps the world’s most reviled environmental villain, has finally been busted for for selling its poisonous products around the world.

https://www.greenpeace.org/international/story/21954/monsanto-busted/

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Now could it be that we are seeing a reincarnation of the Third Reich in corporate form, and like the  historically Nazi connected Agri-chemical company and politicians sympathetic to their profit lust, we are seeing same with political PHARMACANAZISM telling us what we should do?

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@lynsh84 wrote:

You really are dredging the bottom of the barrel now.....leave the Anzacs to RIP and don't bring them into any more Covid discussions.

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I'm not! I'm just expressing concern that we should be given a choice in all of this. There is no justification to mandate vaccination. And I am not anti-vaccination. I support the use of some as they can be helpful. But this can and only must be the choice of the individual.

[4channel]

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

Well, there are some very interesting inferences to be drawn from that little rant.

1. Unsafe workplaces are to be preferred to safe ones. 

2. Only those working in an unsafe environment can produce anything of value.

3. Suburban houses are less well constructed than rural ones.

4. Neighbours should be enemies not friends.

5. Children should be encouraged to take up dangerous sports.

6. We should do away with road rules and, presumably, drivers' licences, and let everyone take their chances in a free-for-all

7. Staying safe is only for  wimps.

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Amazing that you would even write that. I'm in total disagreement there. What I got from chameleon54's post was that along the way, some of us folk have lost a little bit of ourselves by being caught up in the distractions and aspects of city life. Actually, what he has said is also being said by the health experts as well,. I respectfully have to tell you that your interpretation is grossly inaccurate!

[domino-710]

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@4channel wrote :

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I'm not! I'm just expressing concern that we should be given a choice in all of this. There is no justification to mandate vaccination. And I am not anti-vaccination. I support the use of some as they can be helpful. But this can and only must be the choice of the individual.

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There we go again - Godwin's Law.

And - just when are you going to understand - it is - A CHOICE OF THE INDIVIDUAL - to be vaccinated or not.

End of - there are repercussions on all decisions.