Bend over, breath deeply, it doesnt really hurt !!!

[chameleon54]

         Welcome to my latest defect.

Customer buys a vintage outboard motor part. I send it large letter, never to hear another thing. Four months later I get a Paypal credit card chargeback alledging unauthorised use of card. This seems rather strange as the buyer has a number of outboard motor parts purchases in thier feedback & buying history. I phone them up and "Cindy" answers. She goes on to tell me that she asked a "friend" to help her set up her account including all passwords. She didnt bother to change the passwords as she trusted her friend. Her partner also uses her account ( to buy outboard motor parts ) .

          You guessed it, the "friend starts to make unauthorised purchases, using Cindys ebay account. She reports it to the police and then initiates the chargebacks, not bothering to check which where made by Cindy and her partner and which where made by the "friend". While I was on the phone, Cindy asks her partner if he made the purchase, which he confirms. I pass all of this information ( including the fact that Cindy has allowed at least two other people access to her password ) to Paypal. Result -  item was mailed without tracking, so Cindy gets a payment reversal credited to her account and I also have the priveledge of paying a nice big extra fee to the credit card company for handling the chargeback. Reminds me a lot of my last prostate examination. Breath deeply, remember its only a bit of discomfort. It doesnt really hurt now does it, Its all in your mind.:   ( Thats the look I had on my face at the time LOL )

WELCOME TO THE BRAVE NEW WORLD OF 180 DAY RETURNS.

[character_parties_aus]

not the brightesst light on the tree? but bright enough to screw you over it seems. I'd get that police report lodged!

[mbselections00]

---

@chameleon54 wrote:

Thanks DG. I have fought other cases in the past long and hard until I have won, but these have been from people who are smart enough to know exactly what they are doing. In this case Cindy needed help to set up her account etc. for a reason. Shes probably cunning enough to know she,s got away with something, but probably didnt plan this every step of the way. ( including her own and partners purchases in chargebacks ) It just sort of happened. Sometimes it "just aint worth it". I send a lot of items untracked and include a $1.00 extra charge on all of my postage to self insure against any sort of claim, so I am covered for the financial loss incured with this one. I just thought this experience was one of those wierd and wonderfull ebay stories that was worth sharing. 

---

I'm astounded by this scenario, and can only say, chameleon, while I understand you have covered yourself for the financial loss

you must be the calmest person I have ever come across !!  I do also get your other points and it generally takes a fair bit to get me hopping mad, but I'm with digi on this one - sitting here shaking both my head and my fist !

On principle alone I don't think I could stop - that said, you are no doubt quite correct and perhaps we could all do with some of your wonderful attitude Sometimes it "just aint worth it" - but isn't that exactly what eBay, PayPal & 'Cindy' are hoping ?

[amber-eyed-girl]

I am completely bewildered. She confirms with her partner that it was an authorised purchase. But you are left in this position.

Please, fight this one. If only for all sellers who might hit this situation, to set a precedent. It is not OK for a bank, and Paypal, to let someone walk away with the money and the goods for an admitted purchase on a chargeback.

It is outrageous.

[chameleon54]

---

@mbselections00 wrote:

---

On principle alone I don't think I could stop - that said, you are no doubt quite correct and perhaps we could all do with some of your wonderful attitude Sometimes it "just aint worth it" - but isn't that exactly what eBay, PayPal & 'Cindy' are hoping ?

---

I dont know about "wonderfull attitude". Its more just a survival technique. On the occasions I have taken on similar fights, I have got so angry and uptight, I thought my head would explode. I,ve had many sleepless nights, plotting and scheming how to right the wrongs and as I say " sometimes it just aint worth it". I think the fact that this is such a bizzare little story, and to see Paypals response, it is so ridiculous as to be almost humerous. I think the fact that I am actively working on "the big escape" helps, as I can see a time when I wont be joined at the hip with ebay in the not so distant future. I must say it is a bit scary going it alone though, as Ebay has been a very good source of income at a difficult time. ( over 50 yo, teenage kids, family disability issues, no regular job and dont really want one. ) So in the meantime, I,m just sitting here in front of the screen in the lotus position, thinking happy thoughts.  

[chameleon54]

---

@amber-eyed-girl wrote:
I am completely bewildered. She confirms with her partner that it was an authorised purchase. But you are left in this position.

Please, fight this one. If only for all sellers who might hit this situation, to set a precedent. It is not OK for a bank, and Paypal, to let someone walk away with the money and the goods for an admitted purchase on a chargeback.

It is outrageous.

---

The one big problem I,ve got is the only proof I have that her partner purchased the item is that I heard him confirm it in the background of the phone call, when Cindy asked him. I pointed out in my correspondence with paypal that the purchase was consistent with previous purchases and that at the time of the phone call Cindy had two of my items in her "watch list" , but Paypal have chosen to ignore all of this. If I had any tangible form of proof  I would take the matter further, but as it stands I,ve got nothing. ( but the bill, the defect and "happy memories'' of my time as an ebay trader )

[amber-eyed-girl]

OK, I see.

The "Cindy"s of this world know what they are doing. Sorry it happened to you 😞

[jensmanchester-australia]

Chargebacks have nothing to do with the 180 day policy Paypal is implementing shortly.

A chargeback is instigated through the bank and the time frame is dependent on the terms and conditions of the credit card. Some credit card companies allow up to 12 months for a customer to lodge a chargeback through their credit card. The longest time frame I have had for a chargeback situation is just over 9 months from the date of purchase until the chargeback date.

Fortunately chargebacks aren't all that common but it is something we have to be aware of possibly happening.

[jensmanchester-australia]

Also - a chargeback should not trigger a defect - if it has you need to speak to ebay to have it removed.

[lalala-au]

This is just so wrong!!! In so many ways! I would be at least hitting on the "Tell us what you think" link a few times a day telling Ebay exactly what I think which would be along the lines #@$%^&*(*&^%$!!!!!!

Yes this is a story that is worth sharing, highlighting a major flaw in the system that does need addressing and fixing! I feel for you, and admire your resilience!!!

[gec2002]

Sorry to hear of your chargeback, unfortunately without proof of posting you have little hope.  I had a similiar experience with a thieving Kiwi. When I spoke to him he said it was a mistake and would fix it.  He never did.  I spoke to paypal rep who said did I want to fight it and I said I did except that would most likely add $15 to my costs for no better outcome.  The rep said don't worry we will wave the fee.  OK About a month later lost case and I am billed $15 by Paypal.  I want ballistic and demanded to hear the tape of the conversatoin with the rep.  Next thing told not to worry and the $15 was refunded. 

At no point was eBay involved and no defect issued - is it because you tried to claim you your FVF fees back, you know how desperate eBay is for money.  The whole idea of the open cases is to scare sellers off claiming fees back.