Buyer wants to pick up and refuses to give a time or day. Wants to come by when it suits them.

[millyswardrobe5]

2 weeks ago I sold a couple of items that had a postage option or a pick up for local buyers.  I work full time and have 2 children who I have to drive to school and various sporting events.  In my description I stated that pick up times would be restricted becasue I can't always be home.  Most buyers who have pick up have been fantastic and were able to give me a time for collection when I given them my availablity.  The buyer I'm having difficulty with said that her life revolves around her children and as such I should be more considerate and wait for her to collect when it is best suited to her.  The first weekend after the sale she sent a message to say that she was going to pick up on the Saturday afternoon or evening.  I originally had plans and said that I was happy to cancel them if it would make her life easier.  I then received a message saying that she would text when she was on her way.  Saturday afternoon and evening passed, I never heard from the buyer.  I also gave her a Sunday morning option to pick up before 9:30am or after 1:30pm.  I work full time and need to do the grocery shopping over the weekend.  Again I never heard from the buyer.  On Monday I received a phone call from her saying that she was coming over to pick the items up.  I apologised to her said that it would not be possible at the current time becasue I was at work and 45 minute drive away from home.  Please note that the buyer lives in the next suberb to me and at most it is 10 minute drive for her.  I then later sent her a messaage to give her some week day mornings and afternoon times for pick up.  Her response was I will call when I'm coming. This has been difficult for me as I have had to commit to being at home for her to come.  On the Friday of the following week she had arranged to pick up at 3:45pm  This was okay and I had said to her as long as it was before 5pm I would be home.  After 6pm I received a message from her saying that she had a headache and wasn't coming for pick up.  She wanted to come over the weekend.  Again I had no response from her.  I really want to cancel the transaction as it is time consuming planning home avaliablity times and commiting to being at home for her not to show.  I am trying to have a clear out before Christmas and items she is picking up are quite bulky.  Am I in the wrong here?  I feel as though I'm the one making all the effort to meet her needs.  I don't really like the pick up option and I only do it as a favour to buyers.  Can I try and cancel the transaction and say that pick up is no longer an option for her?  Is she allowed to leave negative feedback if I say pick up is now no longer an option?  Thank you for your thoughts and ideas 🙂

[colic2bullsgirlore]

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@my*mum wrote:

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@colic2bullsgirlore wrote:

glad the penny had dropped for you too

If the seller states in their sellers terms and conitions on ebay that

# Titles to the goods purchased by you remain with us until you have paid for them.  Once the goods are paid for in full, the title will pass to you. .

# Risk in the goods passes to you when the goods are taken from storage at our warehouse for delivery to you.  We recommend that you insure the goods until delivery to you.

When does the title change hands?

It is dependant upon the terms and conditions the seller has applied to the sale

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I am happy to be proven wrong, but I do not believe that a seller's terms and conditions can trump the law, So, if you can show me where the law says this is OK, I will concede.

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Crikey it's not the point that "does a sellers terms and conditions trump australian law the point of my post is that the

unique terms and conditions a seller applies to their listings form part of the contract.

If you search terms and conditons on ebay and tick include description you will find 8.5 million items with mostly unique terms of sale like

ebay sale live (right now) sellers terms and conditons

All grading in our lots only represent our opinion and does not represent any third party grading. And we will not guarantee that same or similar grading will be achieved from any other party.**IF YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH OUR GRADING , DESCRIPTION or SALES CONDITIONS:PLEASE DO NOT BID

Fully refundable, if item is not as described. Save on postage by combining your purchase, all items offered in Australian Dollars with payment required no later than 3 days.   Items SOLD AS IS AND ITEMS BEGINNING WITH 0.99C AUCTIONS ARE NOT REFUNDABLE


While ****** package items carefully, ****** assume no liability for loss or damage during shipping. If you are concerned, please contact us before shipment to arrange insurance, which will be an additional cost.

Terms of Sale

****** do not make any guarantees on the functionality or compatibility of item unless other wise stated.

****** will not be held liable for any incidental or consequential damages related to the use or misuse of this item under any circumstances.

By bidding on this item, you are verifying that you have fully read, understood and agreed to the terms and conditions of this auction.

A bid is legally binding and any non-paying bidder will be reported to eBay. Negative feedback will be left and ****** reserves the right to take any other action that can be taken.

Purchase with postage (Express Shipping) with tracking and signature. This option will include postal insurance, and will cover your item lost or damaged in transit. If insurance cover is not purchased (Standard Postage) with or without tracking and signature ******* do not take any responsibility for damage or lost in transit.


Whether the terms of sale are lawful or not can only be tested by australian law which certainly does not mean that

terms and conditions trump australian law just that they if tested be poroven to be within the law.

In fact many sellers comply with Australian law by addressing the SOGA in their terms of sale by specifying exactly

when the item title changes from seller to buyer.

[colic2bullsgirlore]

If a small business is serious about selling on ebay or on their own website they should spend the time to formulate their "terms of sale' and include it on their items

http://www.lawlive.com.au/sale-of-goods-contract-template/

This Sale of Goods Contract is suitable to use for the sale of any personal items such as motor vehicles, computers, office equipment etc.

This Sale of Goods Contract includes the following provisions:

1. The Sale and the Purchase
2. Payment of Price and Transfer of Title
3. Warranties Given by the Seller
4. Acknowledgements by the Buyer
5. Possession, Delivery and Risk
6. Whole Agreement

Please note: do not use this document for the sale of land/real estate, sale of business or intellectual property.

The Please note bit is why their is non binding bid policies on ebay

The templates give you parameters to work within.

i just used the site on the link above as an example there are  others

[thecatspjs]

Lol I am no SoG expert, just a trader that seeks to operate ethically and within the law.

Whilst Consumer protection legislation clearly regulates and protects consumers in contrast the SoG IMO supports and guides the sale process.

The SoG leaves much open to the individual contract, and frequently states things like - unless otherwise agreed or similar.

[4946marks]

I would send an email one last time with a time you are advailable and if they cannot be advailable when you are stiff for them open unpaid and re list 4 days later and ban them from bidding on you for evert 

[*crikey*mate*]

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@colic2bullsgirlore wrote:

---

@my*mum wrote:

---

@colic2bullsgirlore wrote:

glad the penny had dropped for you too

If the seller states in their sellers terms and conitions on ebay that

# Titles to the goods purchased by you remain with us until you have paid for them.  Once the goods are paid for in full, the title will pass to you. .

# Risk in the goods passes to you when the goods are taken from storage at our warehouse for delivery to you.  We recommend that you insure the goods until delivery to you.

When does the title change hands?

It is dependant upon the terms and conditions the seller has applied to the sale

---

I am happy to be proven wrong, but I do not believe that a seller's terms and conditions can trump the law, So, if you can show me where the law says this is OK, I will concede.

---

Crikey it's not the point that "does a sellers terms and conditions trump australian law the point of my post is that the

unique terms and conditions a seller applies to their listings form part of the contract.

If you search terms and conditons on ebay and tick include description you will find 8.5 million items with mostly unique terms of sale like

ebay sale live (right now) sellers terms and conditons

All grading in our lots only represent our opinion and does not represent any third party grading. And we will not guarantee that same or similar grading will be achieved from any other party.**IF YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH OUR GRADING , DESCRIPTION or SALES CONDITIONS:PLEASE DO NOT BID

Fully refundable, if item is not as described. Save on postage by combining your purchase, all items offered in Australian Dollars with payment required no later than 3 days.   Items SOLD AS IS AND ITEMS BEGINNING WITH 0.99C AUCTIONS ARE NOT REFUNDABLE


While ****** package items carefully, ****** assume no liability for loss or damage during shipping. If you are concerned, please contact us before shipment to arrange insurance, which will be an additional cost.

Terms of Sale

****** do not make any guarantees on the functionality or compatibility of item unless other wise stated.

****** will not be held liable for any incidental or consequential damages related to the use or misuse of this item under any circumstances.

By bidding on this item, you are verifying that you have fully read, understood and agreed to the terms and conditions of this auction.

A bid is legally binding and any non-paying bidder will be reported to eBay. Negative feedback will be left and ****** reserves the right to take any other action that can be taken.

Purchase with postage (Express Shipping) with tracking and signature. This option will include postal insurance, and will cover your item lost or damaged in transit. If insurance cover is not purchased (Standard Postage) with or without tracking and signature ******* do not take any responsibility for damage or lost in transit.


Whether the terms of sale are lawful or not can only be tested by australian law which certainly does not mean that

terms and conditions trump australian law just that they if tested be poroven to be within the law.

In fact many sellers comply with Australian law by addressing the SOGA in their terms of sale by specifying exactly

when the item title changes from seller to buyer.

---

ok, but in there I can see terms and conditions which I know are overridden by law such as the non refundable policy. and I am sure there is also a law that states how an item must be packaged for shipping I am pretty sure THATS in the SoGA

plus the goods have to be fit for purpose, so their line "we don't take responsibility is void as well

plus they say they will repoert non payers to eBay - how? if they're not going to open up a UID? Do eBay apply strikes if you don't open up a UID?

I understand their damage in transit - agree with that as this is a third party

but not if it is lost and they can't prove they posted/shipped.

so I think all of these things when tested by the law will be found that they don't count. and it will be shown that policies don't trump the law.

I'll have to revisit the SoGA - cats is the expert in that area, not me (I rely on her knowledge of thast, so never filled my head with it - but I'm on holidays now, so maybe in the next few months LOL) - but as yet, I am unconvinced that the seller can dictate when ownership and title changes hands... CATS, could you help me and tell me what section of the SoGA to go to cos I'm feelin' lazy cos it's nearly bed time LOL

[*crikey*mate*]

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@colic2bullsgirlore wrote:

If a small business is serious about selling on ebay or on their own website they should spend the time to formulate their "terms of sale' and include it on their items

http://www.lawlive.com.au/sale-of-goods-contract-template/

This Sale of Goods Contract is suitable to use for the sale of any personal items such as motor vehicles, computers, office equipment etc.

This Sale of Goods Contract includes the following provisions:

1. The Sale and the Purchase
2. Payment of Price and Transfer of Title
3. Warranties Given by the Seller
4. Acknowledgements by the Buyer
5. Possession, Delivery and Risk
6. Whole Agreement

Please note: do not use this document for the sale of land/real estate, sale of business or intellectual property.

The Please note bit is why their is non binding bid policies on ebay

The templates give you parameters to work within.

i just used the site on the link above as an example there are  others

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it wont let me try without joining, so I can't see what it says

[millyswardrobe5]

HELP ! Buyer just sent a very angry text saying she's coming over tonight since she's obligated to buy the item.  Apparentlt she's sick in bed and now I have forced her to buy it..  I'm a bit scared and told her not to worry and not to come tonight.  Can I call the police?

[thecatspjs]

Can't help with SoG as I am attempting to watch Dancing with the Stars ....whilst enjoying an extended happy hour ... so must abandon this thread at this point in time.   Off the top of my head, I think that under the Act an ebay sale only forms an agreement to sell, until other conditions are met.

EDIT: Sorry Op I only saw your post after I posted.

If the time is not suitable for you and you do not wish for the buyer to rock up at your house without adequate notice, I would message to advise it is not suitable for you or ignore messages and door knocks. 

[colic2bullsgirlore]

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@my*mum wrote:

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@colic2bullsgirlore wrote:

http://pages.ebay.com.au/services/registration/reg-confirm.html

3.1 Online Auctions. Although we are commonly referred to as an online auction web site, it is important to realise that we are not a traditional "auctioneer". Instead, our Site acts as a venue to allow members to offer, sell, and buy just about anything, at anytime, from anywhere, in a variety of formats, including a fixed price format and an auction-style format commonly referred to as an "online auction". We are not involved in the actual transaction between buyers and sellers. As a result, we have no control over the quality, safety or legality of the items or content posted by users on the Site, the truth or accuracy of the listings, the ability of sellers to sell items or the ability of buyers to buy items. We cannot ensure and do not guarantee that a buyer or seller will actually complete a transaction or act lawfully in using our Site.

So if anybody can explain to me how an Unpaid item dispute could void a contract between two members (as claimed above) when those members agreed in the user agreeement that

We are not involved in the actual transaction between buyers and sellers.

I would be overjoyed.

If anybody can explain to me if I select immediate payment required as a term of the sale

http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/pay/require-immediate-payment.html

As a seller of an Auction Buy It Now listing or a Fixed Price (Buy It Now) listing, you have the option of requiring a buyer to pay immediately with PayPal before that buyer can purchase your item.

.... How long does the buyer gets to pay?

8 days? or the buyer must pay upon promise?

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the UPI is the process eBay put in place to void the contract - just so peeps have some way of doing it without going to legal expense. It is part of their services they supply and you agree to them when you sign up.

My "guess" is that it would be considered cancellation by "mutual agreement" (probably wrong though) or it is an implied term as that is the time eBay have 'ruled" to be a "reasonable" time. But to be sure, ask them, though when I did, they couldn't tell me anymore than their legal team approved it.

I say 8 days as this is the minimum amount of time given by the UID, there is diddlysquat that you can do before 8 days either in court or on eBay.

if the seller has selected immediate payment required, that is a specific term of their contract, and acceptance is not given until payment is made.

also note we are talking about the rules of AUCTIONS here not BIN

from your link up there section 3

"If you have an Auction listing the Buy It Now button and the immediate payment requirement disappear once a bid is placed (or once a bid meets your reserve price). In that case, the listing becomes a regular auction-style listing, with the item going to the highest bidder"

you really have to stop cherry picking!

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1. A buyer who clicks Buy It Now in your listing is directed to pay immediately for the item using PayPal.

2. Until the buyer completes payment, the item remains available to other buyers to purchase for the duration of the listing. The first buyer to complete their PayPal payment officially wins your item.

   http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/pay/require-immediate-payment.html

   Re cherrypicking from the same link

   The promise to pay does not transfer ownership as the ebay system allows the item to be purchased by other

   buyers if the buyer does not meet the terms and conditions of the sale

[davewil1964]

 the ebay system allows the item to be purchased by other

buyers if the buyer does not meet the terms and conditions of the sale

After the transaction has been cancelled in some form.