Buyer wants to pick up and refuses to give a time or day. Wants to come by when it suits them.

[millyswardrobe5]

2 weeks ago I sold a couple of items that had a postage option or a pick up for local buyers.  I work full time and have 2 children who I have to drive to school and various sporting events.  In my description I stated that pick up times would be restricted becasue I can't always be home.  Most buyers who have pick up have been fantastic and were able to give me a time for collection when I given them my availablity.  The buyer I'm having difficulty with said that her life revolves around her children and as such I should be more considerate and wait for her to collect when it is best suited to her.  The first weekend after the sale she sent a message to say that she was going to pick up on the Saturday afternoon or evening.  I originally had plans and said that I was happy to cancel them if it would make her life easier.  I then received a message saying that she would text when she was on her way.  Saturday afternoon and evening passed, I never heard from the buyer.  I also gave her a Sunday morning option to pick up before 9:30am or after 1:30pm.  I work full time and need to do the grocery shopping over the weekend.  Again I never heard from the buyer.  On Monday I received a phone call from her saying that she was coming over to pick the items up.  I apologised to her said that it would not be possible at the current time becasue I was at work and 45 minute drive away from home.  Please note that the buyer lives in the next suberb to me and at most it is 10 minute drive for her.  I then later sent her a messaage to give her some week day mornings and afternoon times for pick up.  Her response was I will call when I'm coming. This has been difficult for me as I have had to commit to being at home for her to come.  On the Friday of the following week she had arranged to pick up at 3:45pm  This was okay and I had said to her as long as it was before 5pm I would be home.  After 6pm I received a message from her saying that she had a headache and wasn't coming for pick up.  She wanted to come over the weekend.  Again I had no response from her.  I really want to cancel the transaction as it is time consuming planning home avaliablity times and commiting to being at home for her not to show.  I am trying to have a clear out before Christmas and items she is picking up are quite bulky.  Am I in the wrong here?  I feel as though I'm the one making all the effort to meet her needs.  I don't really like the pick up option and I only do it as a favour to buyers.  Can I try and cancel the transaction and say that pick up is no longer an option for her?  Is she allowed to leave negative feedback if I say pick up is now no longer an option?  Thank you for your thoughts and ideas 🙂

[thecatspjs]

QUICK CLARIFICATION  I think that under the Act an ebay sale only forms an agreement to sell, until other conditions are met - such as payment etc   .... 

[colic2bullsgirlore]

no cancellation just first in best dressed

ie buyer 1 clicks on a buy it now immediate payment required listing but does not open paypal and pay immediately and comes back in 10 minutes to find the item has been bought by buyer 2 who clicked on the same buy it now immediate payment required listing and paid immediately as per ebay policy

So I think it is impossible that the promise to pay transfers ownership unless it is a specific seller term and condition stated in the listing

[*crikey*mate*]

---

@colic2bullsgirlore wrote:

---

@my*mum wrote:

---

@colic2bullsgirlore wrote:

http://pages.ebay.com.au/services/registration/reg-confirm.html

3.1 Online Auctions. Although we are commonly referred to as an online auction web site, it is important to realise that we are not a traditional "auctioneer". Instead, our Site acts as a venue to allow members to offer, sell, and buy just about anything, at anytime, from anywhere, in a variety of formats, including a fixed price format and an auction-style format commonly referred to as an "online auction". We are not involved in the actual transaction between buyers and sellers. As a result, we have no control over the quality, safety or legality of the items or content posted by users on the Site, the truth or accuracy of the listings, the ability of sellers to sell items or the ability of buyers to buy items. We cannot ensure and do not guarantee that a buyer or seller will actually complete a transaction or act lawfully in using our Site.

So if anybody can explain to me how an Unpaid item dispute could void a contract between two members (as claimed above) when those members agreed in the user agreeement that

We are not involved in the actual transaction between buyers and sellers.

I would be overjoyed.

If anybody can explain to me if I select immediate payment required as a term of the sale

http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/pay/require-immediate-payment.html

As a seller of an Auction Buy It Now listing or a Fixed Price (Buy It Now) listing, you have the option of requiring a buyer to pay immediately with PayPal before that buyer can purchase your item.

.... How long does the buyer gets to pay?

8 days? or the buyer must pay upon promise?

---

the UPI is the process eBay put in place to void the contract - just so peeps have some way of doing it without going to legal expense. It is part of their services they supply and you agree to them when you sign up.

My "guess" is that it would be considered cancellation by "mutual agreement" (probably wrong though) or it is an implied term as that is the time eBay have 'ruled" to be a "reasonable" time. But to be sure, ask them, though when I did, they couldn't tell me anymore than their legal team approved it.

I say 8 days as this is the minimum amount of time given by the UID, there is diddlysquat that you can do before 8 days either in court or on eBay.

if the seller has selected immediate payment required, that is a specific term of their contract, and acceptance is not given until payment is made.

also note we are talking about the rules of AUCTIONS here not BIN

from your link up there section 3

"If you have an Auction listing the Buy It Now button and the immediate payment requirement disappear once a bid is placed (or once a bid meets your reserve price). In that case, the listing becomes a regular auction-style listing, with the item going to the highest bidder"

you really have to stop cherry picking!

---

---

1. A buyer who clicks Buy It Now in your listing is directed to pay immediately for the item using PayPal.

2. Until the buyer completes payment, the item remains available to other buyers to purchase for the duration of the listing. The first buyer to complete their PayPal payment officially wins your item.

   http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/pay/require-immediate-payment.html

   Re cherrypicking from the same link

   The promise to pay does not transfer ownership as the ebay system allows the item to be purchased by other

   buyers if the buyer does not meet the terms and conditions of the sale

---

but that is a BIN, not an auction.

and no, it means if a few people happen to BIN at the same time, cos if you do the instant payment thing, as soon as you hit commit to buy, it takes you to PayPal. The first person to "hand over their cash" is the winner. because they have been the first person with whom an agreement was made.

If there is no agreement, it doesn't matter if there is a promise to pay or not, just as it doesn't matter if there is offer.

The seller effectively says they will accept the offer of the first person who pays, so anyone who doesn't pay, their offer is rejected. rejection can occur at any time prior to acceptance.

In an auction acceptance occurs at "the fall of the hammer" or when the auction expires. (not ended early) because the BIN option is kept live until someone pays, it hasn't expired so acceptance has not taken place.

In a regular BIN, the listing ends when someone commits to buy.

[*crikey*mate*]

---

@colic2bullsgirlore wrote:

no cancellation just first in best dressed

ie buyer 1 clicks on a buy it now immediate payment required listing but does not open paypal and pay immediately and comes back in 10 minutes to find the item has been bought by buyer 2 who clicked on the same buy it now immediate payment required listing and paid immediately as per ebay policy

So I think it is impossible that the promise to pay transfers ownership unless it is a specific seller term and condition stated in the listing

---

its a BIN where acceptance is at the point of payment.

if payment is not made immediately, the offer is rejected (an offer can be rejected at any time prior to acceptance) the seller has not accepted so the BIN remains live as no contract has been formed.

there was no acceptance, so no contract, so the promise to pay is irrelevant as there is no contract. you have to have all 5 elements for the contract to be formed.

It's not the promise to pay that transfers the ownership.

Ownership is transferred when the contract is formed.

[thecatspjs]

Just checking in to see what you did regarding the buyer demanding to pick up the goods tonight OP??

[thecatspjs]

Ownership is transferred when it is intended to transfer, depending on contract conditions. If payment has not been received I still think it is not a sale - it is an agreement to sell subject to certain conditions being met.

That being said I think that whilst an agreement to sell is " live" then its best to treat it as a sales contract, unless you have conditions that state otherwise, and act accordingly.

[*crikey*mate*]

hang on cats, I'm in the SoGA now

but I just found this for Bully and I think the answer to the instant payment is here. the listing is no longer the invitation to treat, it is the offer. but the buyer signals their acceptance by paying, so until they pay, they have not accepted the offer and yes there is a case about this but I'll find it later LOL something to do with performance.

17	Lefkowitz v Great Minneapolis Surplus Store 86 NW 2d 689 (Minn 1957)	Limitation on who can accept (and what can be accepted) will distinguish an invitation to treat from an offer – will be considered an offer.
18	Harvela Investments Ltd v Royal Trust Company of Canada CI Ltd [1986] 1 AC 207	A promise to accept the most competitive tender will be an offer

[*crikey*mate*]

---

@thecatspjs wrote:
Ownership is transferred when it is intended to transfer, depending on contract conditions. If payment has not been received I still think it is not a sale - it is an agreement to sell subject to certain conditions being met.

That being said I think that whilst an agreement to sell is " live" then its best to treat it as a sales contract, unless you have conditions that state otherwise, and act accordingly.

---

im working on this, give me 5 - but look at section 3 of the act for definitions it tells you how to handle the agreement to sell.

[*crikey*mate*]

---

@thecatspjs wrote:

QUICK CLARIFICATION  I think that under the Act an ebay sale only forms an agreement to sell, until other conditions are met - such as payment etc   .... 

---

I'm using Qld cos I'm in Qld, so if I have to study one, it might as well be the one I'm most likely to use LOL - my guess is they are all much the same though, but happy to be corrected.

Section 3 - Interpretation of Terms

"contract of sale includes an agreement to sell as well as a sale;"

SALE OF GOODS ACT 1896 - SECT 4

4 Sale and agreement to sell

(1) A contract of sale of goods is a contract whereby the seller transfers or agrees to transfer the property in goods to the buyer for a money consideration, called the price. it does not say money has to change hands, it just needs consideration. Thomas v Thomas (1842) 114 ER 330 and at least 4 other cases.

(1A) There may be a contract of sale between one part owner and another.

(2) A contract of sale may be absolute or conditional.???? Can anyone expand on this??

(3) When under a contract of sale the property in the goods is transferred from the seller to the buyer the contract is called a sale; but when the transfer of the property in the goods is to take place at a future time or subject to some condition thereafter to be fulfilled the contract is called an agreement to sell.

(4) An agreement to sell becomes a sale when the time has elapsed or the conditions have been fulfilled subject to which the property in the goods is to be transferred.

...................................................................

no mention of ownership yet, just posession.

[*crikey*mate*]

SALE OF GOODS ACT 1896 - SECT 13

13 Stipulations as to time

(1) Unless a different intention appears from the terms of the contract, stipulations as to time of payment are not deemed to be of the essence of a contract of sale.

(1A) Whether any other stipulation as to time is of the essence of the contract or not depends on the terms of the contract.

(2) In a contract of sale--

month means prima facie calendar month.