I want to report schilling by an Australian seller. Which fed. authority do I report it to.

[lokes2004]

I have today reported to ebay 2 instances of schilling by an Australian seller but from the history of this seller on ebay it is clear this has been going on for some time and likely involves thousands of dollars. What action will ebay take to remedy this and assuming that it is a fraudulent activity under state or federal law which Australian authority should I report it to?

Knowing that this has happened for so long makes me question ebay's oversight of such activity. This particular seller schill bids to an Auto maximum bid and if outbid sniffs out the new highest maximum bid and bids up to it to max the price.

If the items ends up going to the scill bid it is again put on auction and the process begins again.

[lokes2004]

No, The items are the exact same item that has been bought by the bogus buyer. In fact, every item that was bought by the bogus buyer yesterday are up for sale today by the same seller and if not bought will be auctioned again. I have tracked these items back 3 months and the practice just repeats until finally bought.

[imastawka]

That's not proof of shill bidding.  The seller may well have dozens of the same item

and would rather auction them, than BIN them.

Can you give us an item number?

[lokes2004]

The seller starts the bidding under a bogus ID etc. but it is the same ID with every item that gives it away. Especially when the original seller has it up for sale again the next day

I don't want to out the shiller publicly. I had reported the seller to ebay and it's up to them to deal with the issue. But, because it is really not in ebay's interest to identify ebay fraud I'm not convinced that they will do much.

From what I have seen this seller has ripped of dozens of bidders by thousands of $ over the last 3 months.

This is fraud and needs to shown for what it is......but, what authority deals with this?

[lokes2004]

This is what's so stupid about this particular case. The same bogus id has been used over and over again.

[imastawka]

Unless you give us an item number or a listing title, all you're doing

is letting off steam and ranting.

Why come here and start a thread if you don't want people to look into it?

[lokes2004]

You're right. Yesterday this seller had 10 items closing on auction (this seller sells only one item type and it's used. Each item also has markings that allow you to id it exactly). 7 or 8 were won by the same bogus bidder ie no one put in a higher bid so the seller misjudged by trying to extract the max. possible bid. Today they are all up for sale again by the original seller.

[imastawka]

I give up...............................I no longer care

I've lost the will to live      

Rant away to your heart's content

[englishrosegardens]

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@lokes2004 wrote:

The seller starts the bidding under a bogus ID etc. but it is the same ID with every item that gives it away. Especially when the original seller has it up for sale again the next day

I don't want to out the shiller publicly. I had reported the seller to ebay and it's up to them to deal with the issue. But, because it is really not in ebay's interest to identify ebay fraud I'm not convinced that they will do much.

From what I have seen this seller has ripped of dozens of bidders by thousands of $ over the last 3 months.

This is fraud and needs to shown for what it is......but, what authority deals with this?

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You don't want to expose a thief????  The more people who report it, the more chance that something will be done about it, which is why people keep asking for an item number.  It's not just out of idle curiosity (stick-beaks) that we want to know.

At the moment all you're doing is ruining ebay's reputation and putting people off buying from all sellers by talking about shady practices, so you'd do a lot less damage by exposing the actual culprit.  Why would you want to protect someone who is blatantly breaking the law?  I never trust anyone who wants to protect a criminal!

[lyndal1838]

No-one can take you seriously if you refuse to post an item title so it can be looked into.

Ebay is unlikely to take action on the report of one member but if reported by several members things might get done.

The boardies have quite a good record of exposing suspect listings.

[chameleon54]

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@colic2bullsgirlore wrote:

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The question I was trying to clarify is where are bids placed on a global auction site like ebay actually happening. ????  Is the bid on a global internet site considered under law to be conducted in Australia, if the company is not operating from Australia. ??? 

As we know ebay do not pay GST to the Australian Government, so it follows that The Australian Government and its agencies dont regard the bidding process or other similar components of the transaction, conducted on the ebay site as occuring in Australia.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

All you regular posters know the jurisdiction anyways it appears to me that this has turned into a chest bumping thread

ie cats vs the mob

As per your user agreement you acknowledge that the global interenet site does not conduct the "auction" you

acknowledge that the seller does. If the sellers location is within Australia then that states legal system becomes the

jurisdiction within which you can seek remedy

"You will not hold eBay responsible for other users' content, actions or inactions, items they list or their destruction of allegedly fake items. You acknowledge that we are not an auctioneer. Instead, our sites are venues to allow anyone to offer, sell, and buy just about anything, at any time, from anywhere, in a variety of pricing formats and locations, such as Stores, fixed price formats and auction-style formats. We are not involved in the actual transaction between buyers and sellers. We have no control over and do not guarantee the quality, safety or legality of items advertised, the truth or accuracy of users' content or listings, the ability of sellers to sell items, the ability of buyers to pay for items or that a buyer or seller will actually complete a transaction or return an item. "

The litigation trail below confirms where the Australian legal system acknowledges the"trade" took place

Wirraway

NSW Supreme court

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/08/03/1185648121130.html

Consumer affairs VIc

https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/shopping/online-shopping/buying-from-a-private-seller-online

You can also make a claim through a tribunal or court. If the seller is based:

• in Victoria, make a claim for compensation to Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal (VCAT) under the Civil Claims List – visit the VCAT website
• interstate, lodge a claim with the tribunal in the state where the seller lives
• overseas, seek independent legal advice.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/JlLawInfoSci/2008/4.html

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Last comment for me too on this thread. I,ve got work to do.

Whilst cats may have posted some provocative remarks, I hope through further debate we may have found at least some common ground. 

All of the above is great well researched information. The problem, as cats has noted is that the Australian laws both for taxation and the trade practices act which relates to dishonest and fraudulant dealings including shill bidding has too many holes in it in relation to internet based transactions.

There have been some succesful legal cases which have gone some way to establishing legal precedent in regards  to jurisdiction in cases of internet fraud, but there have not been any succesful cases in Australia in relation to shill bidding on internet based auction sites. Australian law places a lot of emphasis on legal precedent and it is this lack of legal precedent in relation to specific cases of shill bidding on internet sites which is one of the main stumbling blocks to succesfully trying and convicting an offender.

The agent conducting an auction,(  in this case ebay ) , has legal responsibilities in regards to shill bidding, but ebay could be quite justified in stating that it specifies in its terms and conditions, that shill bidding is not accepted on the site. As well as this, although we may grizzle about ebay not doing enough to combat shill bidding, it has taken action against shill bidding sellers on numerous occasions, so could justifiably argue it is meeting its obligations.

It would take some-one with very deep pockets to instigate legal proceedings against an internet shill bidder, before legal precedent can be tested and established. Until this legal precedent is set, it is unlikely that a government department would be willing to accept the responsibility and associated costs of establishing legal precedent.

OK I,m outa here now