Item not received case opened on the same day as purchase?

[22toyz]

Hello to Everyone

Long time reader first time poster! Just wanted to get some opinions on a transaction that is currently still active.

Customer X Purchased a product from us on Thursday afternoon - Under $90

this customer lives in Melbourne and we operated out of the Gold Coast so you can understand our geography.

Customer X then opens an item not received case in PAY PAL the very same day with a note that say's that the would like a valid online tracking number or a full refund of their purchase:O

For a few moments this did catch me off guard.

Now as sellers, we are not exactly new at this game and we try and stand out be being friendly, backing it up with great products and lightning post. After I packed the item, i sent a confirmation to the buyer, added a little freebie I am sure they would enjoy and had the item posted out this morning since our Post office is open on the weekend.

So where I would like someone to perhaps illuminate this topic is perhaps the motivations behind this buyers actions.

Is it to catch us unawares and force a possible reversal of funds through INR?

I am actually very well versed in PAY PAL' criteria for such events having been involved in both sides as a buyer and seller.

What we do not disclose to our buyers is that all of our items are tracked through the entire process.

We video tape our packing process and we

send via Parcel Post Satchels with tracking.
 We photograph each packaged item with their tracking number and details visible, and we lodge over the counter and have all Proof of lodgement receipts filed with that days postage.

This way if an item not received case is opened on an item under $200, I can validate this online, I can then forward to PP the evidence they require as proof of shipment and lodgement

We actually do not pass the tracking number on to our customers unless they make a special request.

So thoughts? I have not heard from this customer over the weekend. Should I brace for this going south, my next thoughts is that he will probably open a NOT AS DESCRIBED case next. Has anyone else had a customer open a case of INR the same day they purchased?

Cheers

MATT

[curraone]

Is it possible he has you mixed up with another seller?

Reply to the dispute

but also write to your buyer

[trulyspecialgoodies]

I've had a newbie leave me neutral f/b the same day she purchased saying 'item not received'. When I looked at her f/b left for others I saw that she had done this to a few other sellers - some had been left a green dot with the same comment and others had a neutral. With this buyer I'd just forward him the tracking number and sit tight - it's not necessarily going to develop into a 'not as described' case. Check out his f/b left for others - this will give you an idea of what kind of buyer you are dealing with. Don't stress over it - you are obviously doing the right thing and he will get his item - wait and see what happens. Good luck.

[phorum_junkie*]

Photographic evidence means nothing and neither does the tracking number on a red or ordinary express satchel. If you used click & send or registered post, as you should do anyway for anything over $50, then just provide the tracking number.

[digital*ghost]

Photographic evidence means nothing 

I believe someone was quite recently successful in defending a claim using various forms of evidence, including photographic and none of which is 'standard' acceptable proof of shipping by PayPal terms. And by successful PayPal decided in their favour. I'm not saying that will always be the case, but theoretically, evidence showing that you addressed a parcel to the correct address and online tracking which shows that parcel as having been lodged, is pretty much the same as any other evidence provided by AP, and certainly less questionable than a mere receipt showing a postcode, which PayPal supposedly accept.

If the buyer intended to open the case against this particular purchase, the best case scenario is that they're an extremely nervous buyer with paranoid tendencies and decided the best defence is offence. Either way, they obviously think it's some form of insurance against scammers or perhaps even sellers that are slow to post (you know, those slackers that take more than 5 minutes to have the parcel lodged at the Post Office... 😐 ). 

I know it will hardly be the most popular (nor best) advice, therefore I do not offer it as such, but no way would I accept being treated like that (if it wasn't an error). I would have refunded them and blocked from further purchase. 😐

[foxette-in-sox]

Customer X then opens an item not received case in PAY PAL the very same day with a note that say's that the would like a valid online tracking number or a full refund of their purchase

For a few moments this did catch me off guard.

I would have called them AFTER I picked myself up off the floor in disbelief.

I also agree with DG though-refunded & blocked.

What a complete idiot they must be.

[22toyz]

Photographic evidence means nothing and neither does the tracking number on a red or ordinary express satchel.

This also used to be my belief, being on the end of a missing parcel my self as a buyer I filed an INR after about 2 weeks and PP found in my favor. The next day the decision was reversed as the seller had provided a photo of the parcel addressed to me, along with a receipt which simply had my postcode on it as proof of lodgement. I was out of Pocket $125, no item and Pay pal sided with the buyer and I lost. I fought it and a week later I still lost.

From memory, proof of lodgement is all a seller needs with PP to defend an INR case under $200 from memory unless that $$ figure has recently changed. They called it reasonable proof that the seller had successfully carried out their duties.

An over the counter lodgement with tracking, and then proof  that that tracking number matches the correct address on the parcel, in most cases PP will side with the seller.

[22toyz]

Sorry about the above mistake above, to clarify PAYPAL sided with the seller as they provided reasonable proof or postage. Not all sellers use Click and send, so they must be able to allow options for those who do not use the service, even if they do not advertise them as acceptable means

[phorum_junkie*]

The next day the decision was reversed as the seller had provided a photo of the parcel addressed to me, along with a receipt which simply had my postcode on it as proof of lodgement. I was out of Pocket $125, no item and Pay pal sided with the buyer and I lost. I fought it and a week later I still lost.

And did you ring Paypal, ask to speak to a supervisor and tell them that you would provide them with a Stat Dec confirming you had not received the parcel and if they still did not refund tell them you would be complaining to the Ombudsman?

I am 100% sure that had you gone down that route you would have had your refund.

[tall_bearded]

Pay PayPal is not insurance.  It is a recovery service with a discretionary payment component where recovery is not possible.

Irrespective of the value of the goods contained in the parcel, if the seller can prove postage, the buyer has no right of recovery against the seller, and when it comes to what constitutes proof of postage, it’s been a very long time since a stamped registered post receipt or Click and Send have been the only kind of proof PayPal will accept.  In fact today they will accept anything which provides reasonable grounds to believe it was and sent and sent to the correct address, with the minimum proof for parcels sent regular post being, a receipt that something was sent to the suburb in which the buyer resides. 

As for the buyer lodging a dispute with Ombudsman: sellers can, buyers can’t. 

Buyers can’t because, as PayPal is not insurance, if postage is proved and no right of recovery exists, then the only alternative is for PayPal to make a discretionary payment, with the only disputable decision arising being if PayPal’s decides not to make a discretionary payment; and the Ombudsman simply has no power to interfere with how a discretion should have been exercised.

This is significantly different to what would occur if PayPal was insurance, because a policy of insurance creates legal obligations.  That is, if PayPal Buyer Protection was a policy of insurance, and if PayPal decided to reject the buyers claim, then the buyer can lodge a complaint with the ombudsman because, what is now being disputed is not how the discretion was exercised, but whether the claim was rightfully rejected.