Paypal dispute for pickup item - new rules?

[collectibles_in_canberra]

Sold a large wall unit for pickup only $850  - buyer sent courier to pickup.

He received and then opened a dispute for not as described due to apparent scratches etc  (50 year old unit with scratches, dents etc mentioned in listing).

He demands a $350 refund or we pay the courier costs both ways for him to return the unit.

I was going to escalate it to a Paypal dispute but was wary of how the new Paypal pickup laws work.

I have no faith in Paypal seeing common sense at all.

Anyone had a recent case?

[digital*ghost]

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ETA: Superfluous post.

A secret, superfluous post, apparently. 

[k1ooo-slr-sales]

yep, point taken.  My mistake, apologies to OP.

[k1ooo-slr-sales]

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@lyndal1838 wrote:

You are looking at the listing for the matching bookcase that was listed at the same time.....the buyer did not buy that one.

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this post of lyndal's, and that of digital*ghost,  were in reply to a post of mine and not collectibles_in_canberra.  My post contained erroneous information and has since been removed.

[collectibles_in_canberra]

Looks like he doesn't want to escalate because it will cost too much to return.

He is now threatening legal action and 'Will take this Further'.

Offered him a refund upon return but he insists I should pay the courier costs.

[phorum_junkie*]

I would call Paypal and explain that it is a second hand item that was described as having scratches and is therefor exactly as described. Paypal should find in your favour but if they don't all is not lost and we ca talk you through how to proceed if needed.

As for legal action, tell him to bring it on, your solicitor has assured you that you have no liability as any damage not described could have been caused by the carrier who was an agent of the buyer not the seller.

[*tippy*toes*]

Legal action is a bluff. It would cost him way more to fight it than walk away. If he starts going on about Consumer Law, unless you're a registered business, tell him to get stuffed as CL doesn't apply to private sellers.

[thecatspjs]

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@*tippy*toes* wrote:

Legal action is a bluff. It would cost him way more to fight it than walk away. If he starts going on about Consumer Law, unless you're a registered business, tell him to get stuffed as CL doesn't apply to private sellers.

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I think it would be drawing a long bow for the OP to use the argument that they are a casual seller.  More than 3,000 received in past 12 months - would be very very likely to viewed as business. 

I do think as the buyer organised a courier (their agent) to collect goods (and these goods were second hand with flaws listed) then I imagine they have little chance of any recourse through channels other than paypal.

[*tippy*toes*]

A private seller can still sell a lot. I didn't use the word casual. It makes them a business in the eBay sense, but unless they are trading as a business with an ABN, then CL doesn't apply. Unless of course you think the court magistrate got it wrong when friends of mine were taken to court by a buyer.

[collectibles_in_canberra]

I am trading as a registered business with ABN

He has escalated it and Paypal are now determining the outcome which can take up to 30 days! 

He is still demanding we pay the $500 courier cost to return the item which he did not pay through Paypal anyway.

I have no faith in Paypal at all - once lost a case where the buyer smashed up a heap of jewellery & watches for the gold & stone content and was able to return it for a refund.

[*tippy*toes*]

Hopefully PayPal will see sense. It was a second hand item saying it had scratches. The buyer is claiming it's not as described because it has scratches. Surely PayPal can see that? Most of the time I think they are pretty good. It's the eBay MBG that tends to screw sellers over. Also, if the dispute is through PayPal and he wants to return the item, he has to pay for the return. It's somewhere in the T&C's.

Also, one would assume that if he hasn't paid for the courier via PayPal to you, then if you are forced to accept the return and refund, he should only get back what he has paid you. That is, the cost of the item. PayPal are not going to force you to refund him money that you weren't paid in the first place. It was his decision to get it delivered when it was a pick up item, you shouldn't have to pay for that decision.

Please keep us updated, I for one am very curious how this is going to end. Crossing everything for you.