any safe way to sell pickup paid by paypal?

[stick.it.good]

I sell some items where I allow pickup. And even if I say Cash on Pickup is preferred, obviously some buyers prefer paypal to use their balance or ebay coupons.

But I find it very frustrating that ebay allows pickup, but has no safety net if the buyer files a paypal claim.

I can ask for ID, but some people feel very uncomfortable handing this out, and especially letting me take a copy.

I can kindly say that without it, I cannot continue with the sale. But in real life, buyers can get frustrated and leave negative feedback. Plus, it's just not a nice purchasing experience for them, or me!

Has anyone found any way to keep themselves as a seller safe from potential scams without making the buyer feel like an untrustworthy scumbag? I want to have positive relations with buyers and not have to treat each of them like potential scammers.

[springyzone]

Yes, I too  have been asked for photo ID, for example at the post office & the Good Guys, when picking up parcels or orders. They do note the number but never scan or photograph it. Those though are businesses and I would feel uneasy for a private seller to be asking to do more than any business would do.

So snapping photos of my licence/passport/credit card etc is out.

I suppose to some extent too, it depends on the purchase. Most times if I have bought a pick up item, it has been for something smaller & local and to be honest, I have always paid cash.

I do think some buyers pay via paypal to show good faith. I was with a friend yesterday who ordered something about 10 days back & had paid via paypal because she could not pick it up immediately. It was her way of showing the seller she was genuine.

But for most of your average items, I would imagine signing a receipt to show you received the item would be enough.

[maranock]

As an ex private detective I know that there are some legal issues around taking a copy of an ID. Businesses can usually take note of a licence number, or even take a scan with your permission because they have very strict privacy rules that they have to follow regarding storage and disposal of that info.

It is illegal for a private person to take a copy of ID, not only because they would not have the secure storage facilities but also because of the permission issue and paperwork that goes with it. 

I would never allow a copy of my licence or other id to be taken by a business or a private person because I know how easy (and common) it is to steal someones ID or to use it to scam others. I only allow scans to be taken from government and banking institutions with high security procedures.

[digital*ghost]

Thanks for mentioning that - I was actually wondering late last night about privacy laws and whether it would be ok (after suggesting it would ).

I know the basics, but not much else so tried to research it to make sure taking a pic was actually ok, but I couldn't really translate what I was reading into this kind of scenario, because it was simply saying individuals have no responsibilities under the privacy act (for the record, I was focusing in the info about rights and responsibilities, and now that I'm looking through it again, I can see I shoulda clicked through to this, as it seems to clarify a few more things. i.e. Reading the two together, it suggests only those who have responsibilities under the privacy act, are allowed to scan ID, if I am reading it right ). 

[bimberiretrosystems]

There is no way to protect yourself from credit card chargebacks and you get charged a $30 fee non refundable fee if a charge back is lodged (i think it is non refundable- even if you win?).  There was a TV show on one of those bogan current affair type programs ages ago and even they stated that paypal is a carriage service for online fraud and cited an example of a scam where a SELLER used paypal to scam customers or something like that.

[tazzieterror]

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@gumleaf_goodies wrote:

I understand your concerns, as I also allow pickup of many items. I state in my listings that cash on pickup is preferred, but there are still those who don't read and pay by Paypal anyway.  Most times I email them and let them know I will be refunding their PP payment and will take cash if they still intend picking up. Otherwise they will have to pay for postage.

Pickup is a privilege not a right, and some sellers even request a fee for pickup!! (I don't). The only negative I ever received was from a buyer who got angry when I refunded her $10 PP payment for a pickup item. If that is their attitude I'd rather not sell to them.

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You might prefer to to be paid by cash for an item being picked up, but as PayPal is offered as a payment method on all your listings a buyer has every right to feel miffed if you refund a PayPal payment and then demand to receive cash instead.  You're going back on the terms displayed in your listing as well as a condition you agree to abide to by selling on eBay.

You may consider pickup to be a privilege, but again if you're offering it as an option in a listing, the buyer has every right to use that option to receive the item they've purchased.

I'd respectfully suggest it is your attitude and not that of your buyer that is in need of adjustment here.

[tazzieterror]

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@stick.it.good wrote:

...

I can ask for ID, but some people feel very uncomfortable handing this out, and especially letting me take a copy.

I can kindly say that without it, I cannot continue with the sale. But in real life, buyers can get frustrated and leave negative feedback. Plus, it's just not a nice purchasing experience for them, or me!

Has anyone found any way to keep themselves as a seller safe from potential scams without making the buyer feel like an untrustworthy scumbag? I want to have positive relations with buyers and not have to treat each of them like potential scammers.

---

Have a look at the buyer's feedback (both received and left for others) and use that to judge their trustworthiness.  If anything doesn't make you feel comfortable, cancel the sale and refund them, and perhaps take a defect notice to your account.

Otherwise, just let them collect the item normally.  It's unreasonable to expect to see - and especially copy - someone's ID details, especially in this day and age.  If you're not comfortable in proceeding *without* seeing ID, I'd say just post items out and avoid pickups altogether.

[countessalmirena]

Why do you consider it unreasonable to expect to see proof of identity when picking up a paid-for item, tazzieterror?

I politely disagree; in my view showing photo ID to establish identity is perfectly normal.

Mind you, I agree that pick-up is a right when the seller offers it.

[lyndal1838]

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@bimberiretrosystems wrote:

There is no way to protect yourself from credit card chargebacks and you get charged a $30 fee non refundable fee if a charge back is lodged (i think it is non refundable- even if you win?).  There was a TV show on one of those bogan current affair type programs ages ago and even they stated that paypal is a carriage service for online fraud and cited an example of a scam where a SELLER used paypal to scam customers or something like that.

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There is a fee involved in doing a chargeback....my bank charges $15.

The way it was explained to me was that the fee is paid by the "loser".....if the seller does not lose the money then the fee must be paid by the person initiating the chargeback.

As I understand it, if a seller has protection through paypal and fights the chargeback they will pay the fee.  If they don't fight it paypal will foot the fee.  (If any seller knows differently I am happy to be corrected...this is just what I was told by my bank many years ago when I did a chargeback)

[gumleaf_goodies]

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@tazzieterror wrote:

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@gumleaf_goodies wrote:

I understand your concerns, as I also allow pickup of many items. I state in my listings that cash on pickup is preferred, but there are still those who don't read and pay by Paypal anyway.  Most times I email them and let them know I will be refunding their PP payment and will take cash if they still intend picking up. Otherwise they will have to pay for postage.

Pickup is a privilege not a right, and some sellers even request a fee for pickup!! (I don't). The only negative I ever received was from a buyer who got angry when I refunded her $10 PP payment for a pickup item. If that is their attitude I'd rather not sell to them.

---

You might prefer to to be paid by cash for an item being picked up, but as PayPal is offered as a payment method on all your listings a buyer has every right to feel miffed if you refund a PayPal payment and then demand to receive cash instead.  You're going back on the terms displayed in your listing as well as a condition you agree to abide to by selling on eBay.

You may consider pickup to be a privilege, but again if you're offering it as an option in a listing, the buyer has every right to use that option to receive the item they've purchased.

I'd respectfully suggest it is your attitude and not that of your buyer that is in need of adjustment here.

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I am not allowed to state straight out that I will only accept cash if items are to be picked up. If I could I would. However, I can only do it in the most polite way I can phrase it - I would prefer cah if picking up. Stuck between a rock and a hard place. 

[go-tazz]

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@tazzieterror wrote:

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@gumleaf_goodies wrote:

I understand your concerns, as I also allow pickup of many items. I state in my listings that cash on pickup is preferred, but there are still those who don't read and pay by Paypal anyway.  Most times I email them and let them know I will be refunding their PP payment and will take cash if they still intend picking up. Otherwise they will have to pay for postage.

Pickup is a privilege not a right, and some sellers even request a fee for pickup!! (I don't). The only negative I ever received was from a buyer who got angry when I refunded her $10 PP payment for a pickup item. If that is their attitude I'd rather not sell to them.

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You might prefer to to be paid by cash for an item being picked up, but as PayPal is offered as a payment method on all your listings a buyer has every right to feel miffed if you refund a PayPal payment and then demand to receive cash instead.  

Paypal is not something a seller wants as a payment for pick up items but eBay force you to use it as a so called safe payment method,(for the buyer it is but for the seller it's not).

You're going back on the terms displayed in your listing as well as a condition you agree to abide to by selling on eBay.

Actually eBay went back on their word that there was no buyer protection for any pickup item that was paid for with Paypal and a seller can not state that cash on pickup is preferred.

You may consider pickup to be a privilege, but again if you're offering it as an option in a listing, the buyer has every right to use that option to receive the item they've purchased.

Off course they can use that option as it's forced upon sellers and then their bank can do a chargeback with or without their approval and the seller will lose their items,(a win/win for eBay and their buyers) and the seller gets shafted,

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I sell pickup items and my I have my webcam pointing straight at my gate and across the area that their item is picked up from,(I get them to message me the time that they will pickup before they get here and only have to click a button to start recording).

Only ever had one person ask if the item had being picked up as they hadn't received it yet and once I explained that they had and I had the camera proof if they needed it I never heard anything back,(I also write down their number plate viewed via the binoculars as they drive away),