eBay Managed Payments vs PayPal ??? * Forced managed payments

[cc-192]

I'm going to ignore the small % cost differences when comparing.

For decades buyers and sellers have been able to buy and sell items domestically using Aus. bank accounts to send and receive payments for eBay items.
The cost of doing so has always been ZERO. Just as most basic bank transfers between Aus. banks has no charge.
So eBay have now forced themselves into the middle of these normal transfers , and claim now they "manage" it.
I can see they have managed to charge % for what has always been a free transfer, I see that they are guaranteeing their earlier payment of fees, and I can also see they are managing to delay $ transfer times between buyer and seller...so what exactly is the benefit to buyers and sellers ?
Specifically what would be the benefits of forced eBay managed payments for buyer and seller over that which the prior option of  having the choice between bank transfer and/or PayPal payment ?

I'm no staunch advocate for either eBay or PayPal but I am noting people getting bogged down in the fee percentage comparisons rather than the services these fees are actually claimed to be charged for.

PayPal has always charged fees for the service of most often instant money transfers and does function as a stand alone account for members,  from which they can use funds to purchase other goods - whether those goods on eBay or elsewhere.
Paypal has offered transfer services similar to that of Western Union International Money Transfer for those who send moneys or gifts to family members overseas for example, they handle currency conversions, and also offer buyer and seller assurances that many opt for given those guarantees.

The fees PayPal have charged then could be considered in line with a company and fee structure that offers a unique package of services to its members.

For me then eBay Managed Payments vs PayPal charges is comparing apples to oranges.

I am in fact a little perplexed as how eBay have gotten away with it to this point, ie stepping in the middle of standard Aus. bank to Aus. bank money transfers as to glean a % and also slow the transfer time.

I am so puzzled by this I will be contacting appropriate government regulatory departments to see if my speculative curiosity can be appeased.

[case2018]

Thanks for the very pertinent comment

Therein probably lies the cunning :

A debit card (also known as a bank card, plastic card or check card) is a plastic payment card that can be used instead of cash when making purchases. It is similar to a credit card, but unlike a credit card, the money is immediately transferred directly from the cardholder's bank account to pay for the transaction.

My referencing has it that Ayden is able to process various means of transfers, including bank debits and transfers.

So I am back thinking that eBay, along with Ayden, have eyed off the %'s PayPal earn from transfers and gone after it for themselves, whilst precariously trying to exclude a basic payment method that would see no additional fees for eBay.

Based on assumption of 90% sales before being paid for by PayPal, and then 10% with bank transfer or COD, ( which is what I estimate in my history) - eBay has engaged a system whereby they profit further from the 90% of sales that PayPal would have covered, and then also profit further from the 10% that may have been bank transfers.

Now there's a win win !

Someone on here yesterday refers to those who choose bank transfers as mugs ( and I'm not referring to K1ooo ) however they have had purpose for many, especially with the instant options of Pay ID and OSKO whereby buyers can inspect an item such as a vehcile a sned bank transfer deposit on the spot.

Over the past few years these sales spring to mind : two caravans, a vintage motorcycle , collectable old toyota corona, and a tinny boat - I sold these as favours for neighbours in the street and they were all paid for using bank transfer or COD. In fact I only listed them for sale and relayed messages to the owners.

I receipted a $320 payment via instant bank transfer yesterday for an item to be picked up tomorrow,plus cod payments of 100-$200. Those were the online sales outside of eBay however that sort of payment spread was not uncommon for eBay sales BEFORE.

[case2018]

Herein probably lies the cunning :

A debit card (also known as a bank card, plastic card or check card) is a plastic payment card that can be used instead of cash when making purchases. It is similar to a credit card, but unlike a credit card, the money is immediately transferred directly from the cardholder's bank account to pay for the transaction.

My referencing has it that Ayden is able to process various means of transfers, including bank debits and transfers.

So I am back thinking that eBay, along with Ayden, have eyed off the %'s PayPal earn from transfers and gone after it for themselves, whilst precariously trying to exclude a basic payment method that would see no additional fees for eBay.

Based on assumption of 90% sales before being paid for by PayPal, and then 10% with bank transfer or COD, ( which is what I estimate in my history)
Now eBay has engaged a system whereby they profit further from the 90% of sales that PayPal would have covered, and then also profit further from the 10% that may have been bank transfers.

Now there's a win win !

Someone on here yesterday refers to those who choose bank transfers as mugs however that payment option has had purpose for many, especially with the instant options of Pay ID and OSKO , where buyers can inspect an item such as a vehicle and send bank transfer deposit on the spot.

Over the past few years these sales spring to mind : two caravans, a vintage motorcycle , collectable old toyota corona, and a tinny boat - I sold these as favours for neighbours in the street and they were all paid for using bank transfer or COD. In fact I only listed them for sale and relayed messages to the owners.
I've also processed countless online sales for a retired guy down the road who tinkers with old machines and bicycles to keep himself occupied. He doesn't have phone line to the house, no computer, and wouldn't know what PayPal is.

I receipted a $320 payment via instant bank transfer yesterday for an item to be picked up tomorrow,plus cod payments of 100-$200. Those were the online sales outside of eBay however that sort of payment spread was not uncommon for eBay sales BEFORE.

[hunterinitial]

do you work for ebay?

[katistrophik]

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@hunterinitial wrote:

do you work for ebay?

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What an intelligent addition you have made to the conversation. What was the point?

We all are entitled to post opinions and our own experiences, just because they differ from yours doesn't give you the right to be a tool towards anoher poster.

Where is your input, or is this it?

[digital*ghost]

You are only looking at one side of the proverbial coin - and only at the coin that would ultimately land in your pocket.

Bank transfers have waned in popularity steadily for years - when I first joined eBay (2008), they were pretty popular, I used it to pay for all of my purchases (and I, luckily received all purchases except the first, but the seller refunded), then when I started selling in earnest, up to half the sales I made on a weekend would be paid by bank deposit (my initial foray was to list a bunch of items every fortnight).

I eventually opened a store and built it up to become relatively successful, and I kept bank deposit as a payment option for multiple reasons (towards the end, it was purely so I could get checkout to remain functional, lol). It went from being used several times a week, to several times a month, and eventually to maybe once or twice a year out of thousands of sales. I also went from preferring it, to dreading it. (So many more problems, like buyers shortchanging and still expecting the item to be sent, or not paying at all and pretending they did, and still expecting the item to be sent, or getting the account number wrong and never getting their money back, checking my account balance constantly so I could post the item as quickly as possible, just a PITA all around. though I know a couple of these complaints can be eliminated with current technologies, like Pay IDs; I also now get notifications on my phone whenever a deposit is received into my account). 

From the buyers side however, those complaints are losing money to a scammer and having zero recourse. Sometimes people have paid thousands of dollars thinking they actually had eBay protection, only to find out very swiftly that no, they don't.

This is a marketplace, and that means in order for it to thrive, consumers have to have confidence in the site they're buying from. It doesn't matter that they had a choice, what matters is the story they tell about their eBay experience. 

I do not work for ebay, I use ebay to make a living, and as much as it might invite the conspiracy theorists to do the thing they always do, I will gladly give up the extra $$  (or cents), that I made from not paying PayPal fees on bank transfers for all the issues it caused, and never having another buyer lose their money to an out and out scammer, so they know they can all purchase here safely, which will = more sales overall. 

Again, I will never say there are no downsides to the managed payments system, I still have concerns particularly for sellers, but in this specific case I do think the overall benefit to sellers (in general) is being overlooked here.  

[Anonymous]

I am a seller and a buyer on ebay.  The new managed payment system for me is not good, as when I sell an item and buyer pays me, I now have to pay the postage out of my pocket (as ebay dont pay me for about 5 days) and if I dont send it before I am paid I get my account down graded!!!!!!!  I am not a shop, I am a pensioner who cannot afford to wait all these extra days to receive my payment just because ebay are hanging on to it.  I have NEVER paid my ebay account late.  Additionally, some of my items sold have had the payment go to ebay, and some have still gone to my paypal, so ebay has tech problems with this.  Also, most of my shipping is not through ebay but through a courier who I book on a seperate website.  So ebay dont get the post fees on these but they wait for the post fees to add on to my other fees.  So in other words, they are just holding on to the money to make sure they get their full fees but it means I have to cover all the postage before I get paid.  Additionally, ebay say we are saving money, because we no longer pay paypal 2.6% plus 30c.  They do not tell you that added on to your NEW fees is 2.5% plus 30c.  Ebay is not doing this for the buyer or the seller, they are just taking the paypal fees away from paypal since they used to own this company but sold it and no longer want paypal to make the money.    I have had several sales and had to post because ebay said it was paid, but still there is no money in my bank account.  So now if I cannot cover the costs while ebay hold my money, I am FORCED to use ebay postage options only.  In conclusion, EBAY SUCK AND I FEEL LIKE QUITTING EBAY AS THEY HAVE SHOWN THEMSELVES TO BE IMMORAL, THIEVING, LYING (or neglecting to tell the whole truth) MONEYGRABBERS.

[colic2bullsgirlore]

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@Anonymous wrote:

I am a seller and a buyer on ebay. 

You got that right..you certainly have the market cornered for gaps, Gap1, gap49a, gap50 gap50-2 ...you got the whole set 50 or more........very cheap too.

for the regulars

I am in the market for gaps but always search for the best deal before a bulk gap pigout and I could use some  feedback

Is it Friday night?

[imastawka]

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@Anonymous wrote:

I am a seller and a buyer on ebay.  The new managed payment system for me is not good, as when I sell an item and buyer pays me, I now have to pay the postage out of my pocket (as ebay dont pay me for about 5 days) and if I dont send it before I am paid I get my account down graded!!!!!!!  I am not a shop, I am a pensioner who cannot afford to wait all these extra days to receive my payment just because ebay are hanging on to it.  I have NEVER paid my ebay account late.  Additionally, some of my items sold have had the payment go to ebay, and some have still gone to my paypal, so ebay has tech problems with this.  Also, most of my shipping is not through ebay but through a courier who I book on a seperate website.  So ebay dont get the post fees on these but they wait for the post fees to add on to my other fees.  So in other words, they are just holding on to the money to make sure they get their full fees but it means I have to cover all the postage before I get paid.  Additionally, ebay say we are saving money, because we no longer pay paypal 2.6% plus 30c.  They do not tell you that added on to your NEW fees is 2.5% plus 30c.  Ebay is not doing this for the buyer or the seller, they are just taking the paypal fees away from paypal since they used to own this company but sold it and no longer want paypal to make the money.    I have had several sales and had to post because ebay said it was paid, but still there is no money in my bank account.  So now if I cannot cover the costs while ebay hold my money, I am FORCED to use ebay postage options only.  In conclusion, EBAY SUCK AND I FEEL LIKE QUITTING EBAY AS THEY HAVE SHOWN THEMSELVES TO BE IMMORAL, THIEVING, LYING (or neglecting to tell the whole truth) MONEYGRABBERS.

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All of that is so wrong....I don't even know where to start.

I'm a pensioner  boo hoo.    So are a lot of us. 

If you can't afford to ship whilst waiting a couple of days for your money, then extend your handling time.  Your business model should allow for this.

Paypal fees were 2.6% + 30c flagfall   

Ebay fees are 2.5% + 30 flagfall

How does that equate to ebay being thieves?      It's less.

Courier delivery?  ebay still get 10% fees for postage.  As an aside, I think your postage is too high, but that's just me.

Maybe some reading for you on Managed Payments

Introducing managed payments | eBay

How payouts work for managed payments sellers | eBay

[mtshed2014]

All notable comments and I understand the benefits for buyers given the added protections. I'm a regular eBay buyer and I will say without doubt if I am given choice at checkout I will use PayPal every time given experiences I have had with a multitude of problematic scenarios. It has always been PayPal that has been there as the protective fall back, not eBay. 

I most often have very varied item categories on offer, with a few core products being the larger percentage of listings. As mentioned above I have noticed that vehicles in particular, (motorcycles, cars, boats) often attract buyers who prefer using bank to bank or COD given it allows them opportunity to inspect the item before any payments instigated. I've come to the conclusion it's also just the nature of the way people conduct business differently in different product areas of trade.

I'm interested in how actual instant payments are going to pan out over time under this new system. To date I've most often only accepted cash, PayPal, Osco and Pay ID before releasing items in person.

I'd been hoping the reporting and accounting of sales may have been easier with the new system, but so far it is looking worse for me with payments to linked bank accounts bundled ( not itemised ), and referencing of fees on eBay not as easy to find since trying to navigate new system. Whereas accounting was primarily resourced from eBay related linked affiliates, the new system has more weight put on referencing directly from eBay.
Doesn't seem like a very wise decision to me to do something like this right at a time when they also put in place a significant site format change.

As for the money in my pocket side of the coin - sure, but it's not such a big deal. I've been with eBay Aus. from the very start here and my time in the sun with them has come and gone. I've had the second hand dealers licence - and just a point on that since mentioned … If the smaller scaled personal sellers on eBay did in fact comply with state regulations when dealing with second hand items ( such as paying for licences and compulsory software, uploading every item detail to police and holding items until checks allow release for sale … and of course opening themselves up to having local police permitted to knock on your 24/7 for random inspections ) , then I'm sure that if the very large percentage of them continued to sell on eBay it would be at a loss. I've also manufactured product lines that weren't available anywhere else globally, and had a very good run with export sales, so as I say, I've had a good run with eBay, and along the way PayPal. 

It's now well documented I have an issue with this new set-up. I very rarely allow automated debiting from any of my bank accounts, whether it be utility providers or other creditors requiring regular ongoing payments. I don't do it because some years ago I didn't enjoy a run-around I had to cancel one such set-up. * on a side note I'm wondering what eBay would do if their automated PayPal link for fee payment was severed - and I do see my PayPal linked bank account just had a string of eBay fees drawn so they've timed this with some precision.  This whole Ayden deal is not something I read the fine print about before forwarding more personal information to eBay as was required to continue to use their platform. I have no doubt the information is there but I went along with this considerate of an agreement between eBay and myself, an eBay account holder. As has come to light over the last few days of comment crunching Ayden is a very successful Dutch based payment processing company that for my referencing is not registered with AFCA, and can't be found on the APRA register of authorised deposit taking institutions. I'd surely think they've fulfilled certain requirements to conduct the business they are doing however with many of this overseas businesses type arrangement the support and resources available to local users is too limited, eg. when a problem arises eBay could point toward Ayden and in turn Ayden has no support for an individual eBay member ?  Just as eBay and PayPal have often given the back and forth run-around to their customers, but at least those customers are actual account holders under both business entities and over time those entities have had to comply with local regulations. Reading the problems people are having with managed payments it does seem eBay are responding with  some more support as to resolve, as surely they'd have to given the poor support that's been ongoing now for some years.
I sadly say that I've had to lodge too many OFT complaints against eBay just to seek reply from support that's not concerned with just required cut and paste niceties and then moving you on without any specific explanation or resolve. It is very tiring to have ongoing conflicts with an entity that is partnered with as to conduct business. Probably over the last 10 years I've all but given up on eBay support. I do sometimes however go there as to acquire a transcript with errors in it as evidential support for a case... now how sad is that ! 
IF eBay had cared to maintain decent support for users then I'm sure there'd be greater tolerance to change.

The money that was headed to my pocket that may now end up in eBay's and Ayden's , should have some provision to the eBay member in return. In my case I just can't see it.

I can go elsewhere ? I have. I've been transferring over to other online sales facilitators for a few years now, and quite successfully. To the point I have little interest in even considering building up what I once had on eBay. They started to lose me back when fees on postage costs rose, back when items I'd export would attract 220-270 AUD of express airmail charges on top of item cost. I mentioned the point before, where I was paying over 10% of final sales fees for these items, those that sold same items based on eBay USA were being charged approx. 3-4%.

The argument about more ways to pay being of benefit ? I think eBay allowed After Pay use recently , (with a $10 discount incentive ) , and I think that was before managed payments ?
I do think it may be cheaper for eBay to allow many varied payment methods by using Ayden's services, including new methods as they arise over time. They better pick up the ball in regard to eBay customer support however, if members have no means to contact a bank, or actual transfer provider as apposed to support-slim eBay/Ayden union.

Argument about protection and bank transfer rip-offs ?  There's usually an element of trust and honesty involved with online transactions, whether money transfers, safe delivery, honest descriptions and full disclosures. I don't think this will change at all. As suggested above I do think all methods have their attributes in different situations.

I only see this as eBay trying to squeeze more juice out of the same old fruit, after all aren't they excluding only one type of payment that would not earn them more fees ?

[Anonymous]

PAYPA were charging 2.6% plus 30c.  Now ebay charges and extra 2.5% plus 30c, so fee is ALMOST identical, but paypal gave you access to YOUR money straight away, now I must pay postage out of my pocket up front and wait for ebay to 'PAY ME BACK".  NO, ebay are doing the same job now as paypal did, but it takes MUCH LONGER, WHY IS THAT?

Also, ebay used to own paypal, but they saw how popular it was and sold the company, so now trying to cut out paypal and take the fees for themselves, BUT NOT PERFORMING FUNCTION AS QUICKLY AS PAYPAL DID