@kywee1,
I had completely missed your comment about having received a $20 partial refund.
That partial refund is why you weren't able to receive a full refund under eBay's MBG and under PayPal's Buyer Protection. A similar scenario would be if you went to court, the case was heard, and you received a judgement either in your favour or not in your favour... and subsequently you tried to take the same case to court again. Even if you subsequently found that there were further losses, that case could not be relitigated, having already been heard once. Only if it had been dismissed without prejudice could you re-present that case.
In this instance, having had that transaction presented under eBay's MBG once already, and a partial refund being issued, you could not then present that same transaction with a view to having a further refund, even if you wished to return the item for refund - that is, not under eBay's MBG. Because it was "settled" under eBay's MBG, you could not then seek further remedy under PayPal's Buyer Protection either.
The action you took with pursuing remedy through your card provider is probably the only possible recourse you had. I won't ask whether you informed your c/c provider of the partial refund you received under eBay's MBG; I'm glad you were able to be refunded.
There are two points I'd like to add.
- If there is a problem with an item - if it's SNAD (significantly not as described) - then don't settle for a partial refund. That will be IT. You can't re-address that transaction in the future.
You said that you accepted a partial refund because the watch was "still usable". But that's not the point. "Still usable" does not equate to "fit for purpose". If a watch that is supposed to hold a charge is failing to hold the charge, that means it is SNAD and is not fit for purpose.
If the item is SNAD, you are entitled to a full refund and that is what you should have requested at the time. If the item is not as described but you decide it's still useable, just bear in mind that your decision at the time of accepting the partial refund is final and that you cannot use the MBG or PayPal to enforce any further refund, and that in the very great majority of cases a chargeback cannot be performed subsequently. I would always choose a full refund and would be happy to send back the faulty or SNAD items with the seller paying for the return postage, rather than accept a partial discount, at least in this sort of instance. - If you are buying electronic items, I would not buy from a Chinese eBay seller. There are a number of reasons for that. (See, for instance, my reply in this other thread concerning warranty and the whole too-good-to-be-true purchase scenario.) IN PARTICULAR, when you're buying something that is clearly important in the context of your child's safety, you should not buy on the basis of its being cheap or in defiance of its being sold by an overseas seller, on eBay, and especially not when that overseas seller has poor feedback. The primary concern is that "These watches are meant for tracking kids with GPS in the event that they are lost." That's important! Any issue with the watches that compromises with their fully functioning as intended is an unacceptable issue. You will want an enforceable warranty, a respected brand name, not a knock-off or unbranded item, from an Australian authorised seller of the item. Those are not negotiable.
Why do you need an enforceable warranty?
Because a warranty from an overseas seller on eBay is unlikely to be worth so much as a pile of camel dung. eBay doesn't enforce warranties; that's not eBay's responsibility. You're not covered under Australian Consumer Law unless you buy from an Australian seller, who is a registered business and who is an authorised dealer for the item. The local distributor for that brand can confirm whether that seller is an authorised dealer.
Why do you need a brand name?
"Made in China" is not necessarily a problem. Many companies have of course moved their manufacturing offshore, and much of that is in China. The problem comes with quality control and with compliance to Australian standards.
When a Chinese factory manufactures under contract to an Australian company, they must manufacture to the design and standard of that company. That means the components must be of the designated materials, as required to meet the safety standards and functions/features of the item. The components must be as needed so that the product does not fail within a few weeks/months. The design must be as required to fulfil the required functions to the required standard and required/stated capacity. It must be made to meet Australian regulatory standards. Quality control is important and is required.
When a Chinese factory manufactures its unbranded goods or knock-offs, there is no quality control and no safety standard to be met. Raw materials are the most expensive part of the manufacturing process in China, far more expensive than labour. Hence the raw materials are where the skimping of costs will certainly occur. (There will also be the cheapest possible production method even if the result is an item that is not fit for purpose.)
A cheap easily stressed metal instead of the high strength quality metal needed... non food-safe plastics instead of food-safe... non food-grade silicone instead of food-grade... carcinogenic dyes instead of ones meeting environmental standards... and of course each component made in the cheapest possible way instead of meticulously produced with quality control discarding anything that isn't within a certain narrow specification, and the whole thing put together to look as much like the item it's imitating, while failing to have the capacity, function, safety and overall quality that it should have.
This means that the items are not just not as good, but they are described as having function or durability or capacity etc that they DON'T HAVE. Worst of all, they are dangerous; they can
- fail,
- cause a fire,
- explode,
- become damaged,
- damage other items,
- destroy your house,
- injure or kill not only you but your family.
They are not worth it. They are cheap for a reason, and it's far beyond manufacturing costs being lower in China.
ALSO...
Beware of items that have brand names but are generic in appearance. By this, I mean items that look exactly the same between one "brand" and another "brand", except for a stick-on logo (or easily added logo). These may very well be items that a company in Australia (or elsewhere) chooses from a Chinese factory's/company's manufacturing catalogue. There is nothing unique or "designed in Australia" about the items; the Australian company simply chooses the items which they want to include under their brand, and the company's logo or brand name is added to the generic items. There's no exclusive right to the item. Another company can choose the same items and have them "branded" to them as well. The same issues arise with regard to safety and quality and so on which I've mentioned above.
Why do many buyers give positive feedback to sellers of such items?
Some of the buyers may not be genuine; that is to say, the feedback is created by fake buyers connected to the seller.
However, a huge amount of the feedback is quite genuine. Why on earth would a buyer give positive feedback to an item that's fake or which fails?
The buyers tend to give feedback upon receiving the item or using it for a few times to a limited extent. The knock-offs and unbranded items are designed to look convincing and to function reasonably convincingly for a while. Many buyers will therefore give the feedback based on the appearance and low price and perhaps even speed of arrival in comparison with how long they thought it would take to arrive. ("It looks just like an iPhone but I only paid half of what I'd pay here! Wow! I") Some will try out the item to some extent. ("It's got all of the functions!")
But... few will try out the features and capacity or use it to the point that the item fails because of poor components, at least not within the feedback timeframe. Almost NONE of the buyers would examine the innards or components and see that it is not made to standard.
Some buyers won't really care that the item they've bought is not what they thought they were buying. It may be that people tend to buy items with more capacity than they need, or of better quality than they need. It may be that we've become a little accustomed to items not living up to the hype, not lasting as promised, etc. To some extent we live with an awareness that items failing beyond the warranty period is part of life. Unfortunately it's true that certain goods are manufactured today with an inbuilt obsolescence. However, if you're buying an item that you would reasonably expect to last for a certain amount of time, particularly if that is reflected in the item's price and in the description of that item by the manufacturer, you should be able to rely on that. At any rate... the "oh well" factor plays into our expectations.
It is often more useful to look at a seller's negatives rather than at their positives. If the negs point to a consistent issue, there is probably a problem. If the seller is a high-volume eBay seller, a feedback percentage below 99.5% is generally something I consider indicative of consistent issues.
