The Shroud of Turin

[*crikey*mate*]

I am part way through reading a fiction book featuring The Shroud, and it has sparked my curiosity.

What do you know?

What do you think?

Me? I want to believe that it is real, but I'm not convinced one way or the other just yet, but I am interested in discussing it with anyone else interested in doing so.

 For something of such historical significance to truly exist would be amazing.

[azureline**]

easily ignored after determining who they are.

[azureline**]

The Sudarium is still preserved in the Camara Santa (Holy Chapel) in the cathedral, being displayed to the public three times a year, on Good Friday, the 14th September (the Feast of the Triumph of the Cross), and its octave on the 21st September. Oviedo in northern Spain

Unlike the Turin Shroud, the Sudarium holds no image. It contains only stains of blood and lymph (a colourless fluid from the tissues), but significantly, the blood group is AB positive, the same as that found by scientists during tests carried out on the Shroud of Turin.

[*crikey*mate*]

Timeline of the Shroud of Turin

6th cent.

First reports of an image of Christ found in the city walls of Edessa, Turkey.

944

The Image of Edessa was transferred to Constantinople. Gregory Referendarius, archdeacon of Hagia Sophia in Constantinople, made a sermon about the shroud in which he mentioned it was a full-length image and carried bloodstains.

I wonder how it got into the wall? and why those walls? what are the significance of those walls? was it encased in some kind of protective box? was it part of some kind of time cpasule? were the people building the walls slaves of some kind and this was the only avenue open to them to make sure that this iutem was discovered/preserved for somew time l;ater in history?

[the_great_she_elephant]

You refuse to study the Bible.You have never studied it.What you do is pick passages here and there that you think help you.If you knew the scriptures you would KNOW that Jesus of the NT is YHWH of the OT.The Bible states that CLEARLY!YHWH of the OLD TESTAMENT stated He is coming back to destroy!2000 years of love didnt work and we are in the days spoken of by the prophets.the days of JUDGMENT!

YHWH(Jesus) stated He would make it desolate.look around.It is happening.

And you missed my point. Even if God is going to destroy the world, he is not going to gloat over the destruction as you have said you will do by toasting marshmallows. If Jesus could weep over the destruction he saw coming how come you think it's OK for you to gloat over it? Some might almost call that blasphemous.

[nevynreally]

why are you trashing this thread arguing with the religious nut? I thought you were supposed to be smart?

[azureline**]

The first record of the existence of a physical image in the ancient city of Edessa (now Urfa) was in Evagrius Scholasticus, writing about AD 600, who reports a portrait of Christ, of divine origin (θεότευκτος), which effected the miraculous aid in the defence of Edessa against the Persians in 544.[4]

The image was moved to Constantinople in the 10th century.

The cloth disappeared from Constantinople during the Fourth Crusade [Sack of Constantinople] in 1204, reappearing as a relic in King Louis IX of France's Sainte Chapelle in Paris.

It finally disappeared in the French Revolution.[

wiki

[*crikey*mate*]

OK, this is interesting. If you don't believe in evidence or faith, what other reasons is there for belief?

\

You have provided evidence that you are being a royal PITA....

Consequently I believe this as you have provided enough evidence (according to my own benchmarks and goal posts) for me to come to that conclusion.

[**meep**]

What was the first known pictorial depiction of Jesus?  Was it based on the Shroud?

[the_bob_delusion]

why are you trashing this thread arguing with the religious nut? I thought you were supposed to be smart?

Why are you so quick to judge someone as a religious nut?? I think at least he is an honest believer who truly believes what he reads in the bible. I rather that than the hypocrites. If you ask most Christians if God ask them to kill their kids would they do it. If you even doubt God, you're really an atheist. At least the other Bob has no doubt in his head.

[azureline**]

Journalist Ian Wilson has put forward a theory[11] that the object venerated as the Mandylion from the 6th to the 13th centuries was in fact the Shroud of Turin, folded in four, and enclosed in an oblong frame so that only the face was visible.

For support, he refers to documents in the Vatican Library and the University of Leiden, Netherlands, which seem to suggest the presence of another image at Edessa.

A 10th century codex, Codex Vossianus Latinus Q 69[12] found by Gino Zaninotto in the Vatican Library contains an 8th-century account saying that an imprint of Christ's whole body was left on a canvas kept in a church in Edessa: it quotes a man called Smera in Constantinople: "King Abgar received a cloth on which one can see not only a face but the whole body"

so, is it the Shroud that is talked about in both or were there more cloths?

and could the one in Spain be the one Meep mentioned way back?