Buyer returns a piece of paper instead of the actual item purchased

[calibresportsdepot]

I sold a pair of Yonex Badminton shoes to a buyer in India. He wanted to return saying the it is too tight although I sent the correct size he ordered. He said he would pay return postage. Then he said he was sending return back via DHL and made a claimfor full refund in eBay immediatley with the reason  the item didn't match the descriptio after he got DHL shipping number. However, there is a very thin envelope with paper inside instead of a pair of shoes when DHL tried to deliver it to us. We knew it is not shoes inside and refused to accpet the envelope and notified eBay immediately. However, eBay still made a decision in favour of buyer and issued a refund to the buyer.

What can we do if a buyer returns a peice of paper or any rubbish instead of the item he bought and claims that the item is returned?

[joethenuts]

hi  by not opening it up what do you gain   open the parcel and see if the person wrote something on a piece of paper   you already have proof that ters no posible way there is shoes in the parcel     you have to be wondering whats on the paper 

by not excepting or not opening up the parcel is not going to help your claim

ps  i would love to know whats on the paper thin parcel.

[clarry100]

You could try raising a case with The ACORN.

But since your buyer is outside Australia they may not accept the claim.

But worth asking them I think.

ACORN = Australian Cybercrime Online Reporting Network

The ACORN

[cq_tech]

Because eBay has essentially told Paypal that it is OK to refund the buyer, even though they're not a financial institution nor a member of the FOS, they are, however, now subject to rulings by the FOS, and there is no way that the FOS is going to allow this situation to stand when it is so clearly obvious that you have been scammed.

Consequently, log onto https://forms.fos.org.au/OnlineDispute where you can lodge a written complaint with the Financial Ombudsmans Service, and they will ultimately instruct eBay and Paypal to reverse their decision. You have more than enough evidence to support your case, but I wouldn't just leave it there. This situation has highlighted a number of serious shortcomings inherent in eBay's MBG and something needs to be done immediately.

You should also follow up with complaints to the Dept of Fair Trading and the ACCC as I mentioned above, and it might also be worth getting in touch with the tabloid media (Current Affair and similar) who seem to love exposing rorts such as these. I'm convinced they'd like nothing better than to expose eBay for the dodgy ba$tards that they are.

[mbselections00]

---

@calibresportsdepot wrote:

Thanks cq_tech.

Originally we thought eBay would take the claim seriously and asked us for more information because we talked with someone at claim department and also sent an email to customer service about the problem. We did take photos and we could send them to eBay. Or they could ask DHL to find out it is a ducument or merchandise.

As a small business, we do not want to go to legal activities. It maight cost us too much compared to AUD 178.99 for a pair of shoes and shipping fee.

The content on envelope is "DOX". I think it means "Document".  The weight written down is 0.50 kg.

---

Firstly, may I say I am appalled and consider what ebay & the buyer have done to you is absolutely disgraceful.  SHAME on ebay once again protecting and unfairly siding with the buyer yet again, instead of the Seller.

I agree with cq -  you should take his advice - it won't cost you anything I'm pretty sure & $179 + shipping, fees etc etc is not to be sneezed at - particularly when it has been wrongfully taken from your account.  If nobody complains to these higher bodies, ebay (and paypal) will continue to get away with these sickening despicable activities and policies - as will the scam buyers.

No decent, honest, hard working seller deserves to be treated this way

[rkxfamily]

 I have been thinking about this particular case and talking to my wife about it toninght.

 I simply cannot believe that in the modern day and age, the only "requirement" for a willful scammer to get a full refund of an expensive item and keep the item, is a simple mail tracking number. Any tracking number so long as the addresses are correct, no matter the weight or size and no matter what the parcel contains. I cannot believe that eBay leaves us is such a naked position as sellers after so many years of evolution as a platform and such elaborate protection systems for buyers.

 I think it is outrageous that there are no further processes within eBay and that no authorised person can make a discretionary decision about such a glaring case.  It seems like an insane dictatorship with no due processes. Can it really be that biased and unreasonable?

 So any buyer who chooses to scam can simply choose to do so at any time and all that's required is the cheapest form of mail with a tracking number (a cheap registered letter will do) for the "return" of the goods. The return is then considered proven, no matter how ridiculous or self-evidently impossible that may be and the buyer automatically is entitled to a refund even when it is beyond self-evident that a pair of shoes cannot possibly fit in a letter envelope and the receiver can show photos of the unopened letter and there is documnettation showing the impossible weight. Even under these circumstance they seller loses the goods AND the money?

 eBay is very sick indeed. This can't go on, it's unsustainable.

[mbselections00]

---

@rkxfamily wrote:

 I have been thinking about this particular case and talking to my wife about it toninght.

 I simply cannot believe that in the modern day and age, the only "requirement" for a willful scammer to get a full refund of an expensive item and keep the item, is a simple mail tracking number. Any tracking number so long as the addresses are correct, no matter the weight or size and no matter what the parcel contains. I cannot believe that eBay leaves us is such a naked position as sellers after so many years of evolution as a platform and such elaborate protection systems for buyers.

 I think it is outrageous that there are no further processes within eBay and that no authorised person can make a discretionary decision about such a glaring case.  It seems like an insane dictatorship with no due processes. Can it really be that biased and unreasonable?

 So any buyer who chooses to scam can simply choose to do so at any time and all that's required is the cheapest form of mail with a tracking number (a cheap registered letter will do) for the "return" of the goods. The return is then considered proven, no matter how ridiculous or self-evidently impossible that may be and the buyer automatically is entitled to a refund even when it is beyond self-evident that a pair of shoes cannot possibly fit in a letter envelope and the receiver can show photos of the unopened letter and there is documnettation showing the impossible weight. Even under these circumstance they seller loses the goods AND the money?

 eBay is very sick indeed. This can't go on, it's unsustainable.

---

I agree wholeheartedly - it is beyond belief.  I think the only hope is if all these poor sellers who are being scammed and treated so abominably by ebay take their cases to higher authorities - given the size of ebay, there must be 1,000's of sellers effected - hardly a day goes by that you don't read about yet another case here on the boards.  I cannot understand the morals of those who make & enforce these decisions - how do they sleep at night ?  Anyone can see the system is just so wrong - I understand buyers need to be protected from unscrupulous sellers, but to have a system like this and blatantly ignore sellers, giving them no opportunity what-so-ever to present their case is honestly mind boggling.

I know B&M Stores suffer losses due to theft & one would expect & allow for some on-line theft - but if security catch the thieves outside the B&M store, they don't give them a pat on the back & tell them to keep the goods now do they ??  But that's basically what ebay is doing which only encourages them to try it again & again & again !!

[joethenuts]

I think a lot of you guys are  missing the point.

could and i dont say this seller has done this,,but could the seller be a scammer.

he has taken a photo of an envelope which means he recieved it  we dont know if that was the parcel from buyer in question it also if you look closer has a sticker placed over the original sticker on the parcel the seller wont tell us whats inside the parel and can a sheet of paper weigh  1/2 a kilo   .  i could be wrong 

I mean I am no court judge but the evidence is very  week a tammpered flat envelope    ......

but for all its worth I think the seller is telling the truth    but may not have a leg to stand on

[cq_tech]

The envelope has not been tampered with at all. If you'd read what the OP said above, the second sticker was affixed by DHL because it was a redelivery, and anyway, the only thing written on the original sticker is the consignor's name and address. However, it would be a good idea if the OP left the envelope sealed until such time as it could be opened in the presence of a policeman or a JP, or somebody else of high standing in the community, who could attest that the envelope has not been opened previously, nor tampered with in any way.

If you've had any experience with those sorts of envelopes, you'll know yourself that they are nigh on impossible to open along the sealed edge without virtually destroying them, so for you to suggest that this may be the case is fanciful at best. As far as the 0.5kg weight is concerned, that probably indicates the maximum weight allowable for that type of satchel (same as AP's 500g or 3kg satchels) and not the physical weight of the consignment. Far from not having a leg to stand on, I believe the OP has a very strong case for reversal of the original decision by eBay & Paypal.

[mesonquark]

DHL Express size everything using volumetric calculations (length*width*height/5000) similar to our Australia Post dimensional sizing.

Just go onto the DHL site, search weight, enter the dimensions of the large envelope (say 30 x 20 x 0.25 cm) and you'll see 0.5 Kg is what it gets calculated at.

Actual weight does not get recorded on the label and 0.5 Kg is the minimum no matter how small the envelope is.

[joethenuts]

what i am saying is what is stopping sellers that dont want to refund buyers saying the buyer sent an empty package back to the seller .

in this case if i get a package i would sign for it and open it up   if the seller noticed it was from the buyer of the shoes why would he not acept the parcel for proof it could not have shoes in it   , now all he has got is a parcel from who nows where whith a tampered sticker on top and yes it could be a re deliver sticker, 

now look at ebay the buyer has lodged a refund he has a documents with ddl with a consig number   and when it gets delivered to the seller the seller has refused to except it which maybe to ebay says the seller does not want to give a refund back 

if the seller had taken the parcel and taken a photo there would for a start be no extra sticker and address of where it came from and a perfect seal on the package and anybody could tell there are no shoes in it .

the trouble and i am not sticking up for ebay or paypal there is going to be 2 different stories in most cases 

there is going to be scammers from buying to selling .   but taking a photo of a non address is not going to help this case