Listings removed after the rights owner reported it as counterfeit

[the_alchemist_australia]

Hi all,

Long time stalker who comes here for information usually as I know there is a lot of reliable advice.

I have had a lot of listings removed due to being counterfeit and sort of at a loss as to how to approach the situation.

I am a jeweller and electroplater so I gold plate items in a variety of metals.

Due to demand I started gold plating Pandora jewellery. Customers asked for the items so I would purchase them from a Pandora retail outlet and gold plate them putting the cost of the plating on top and selling them on eBay.

I know about how bad it is to sell counterfeit items and so I would provide a copy of the original purchase receipt from Pandora to the buyer as well as put it in the listing as well.

So my conundrum being that my listings being called counterfeit seems to be that I gold plate an authentic Pandora item and that then makes it counterfeit?

My listings were clearly explained and never misrepresented as being solid gold etc.. And always a very in depth explanation as to the process. I have many happy buyers and repeat buyers as well. Nothing but praise really.

I have of course contacted the email address given to me by eBay being a non for profit organisation called "React" stating to act on Pandora's behalf but I have not received any replies. I have also contacted Pandora directly at their head office today to try and get more information as to if what I am doing is wrong.

Basically if they are saying I am selling counterfeit items and I have all the receipts to prove I purchased them from a licensed Pandora outlet then are one of the Pandora shops I am buying from selling me fakes? I would highly suspect that is not the case but maybe worth pursuing?

I know there is no way to offer any 'legal advice' on here and I should probably seek that this coming week myself to see where I stand on this matter but what is your take on this.

If I buy an authentic jewellery item and gold plate it then resell it, does that make it counterfeit?

Interested in your views really and thanks for your time as always.

Cheers

[brerrabbit585]

I agree with what you said earlier, that you can no longer call them pandora if they've been altered.  In Pandora's eyes, if they're no longer 'original' but they're being called Pandora, then they're counterfeit.  Counterfeit may not be quite the right word but in their eyes, anything that's not original can no longer be sold as Pandora, hence the counterfeit label when it is. 

As chameleon said, calling them brand new Pandora is representing them as being original, no matter what else you say about them.  Brand new indicates in the original condition but you can't call them that if they've been altered.  They may be brand new but they're also a brand new product, not Pandora.

[chameleon54]

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@digital*ghost wrote:

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@chameleon54 wrote:

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The crux of the matter is that the OP has listed his items as brand new. Pandora licence all of their retail sellers and no doubt charge them very hefty franchise fees to be authorised Pandora sellers. With this in mind, Pandora are well within their rights and are actually being commercially responsible by protecting the retailers who have paid the licence fees to sell " NEW " Pandora.

 Basically the OP is not a licenced retailer and has not paid Pandora franchise fees, so is breaching Pandoras licencing agreements with its retailers by listing the items as " brand New "

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My point was that unless you know something I don't, this is all speculation on your part.

However, the wording on the site doesn't require interpretation or speculation at all; it's very clear.

"PANDORA does not authorise any of our retailers to sell PANDORA jewellery on any Internet auction sites, and we can only guarantee the authenticity of products purchased through our authorised PANDORA retailers."

i.e. "We don't let our sellers do it", not "we won't let any sellers do it".

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Pandora have a reputation for closely gaurding the copyright of their products. As the above highlight shows, they AUTHORISE their sellers as a means of protecting that product copyright.

The extension of the above argument is that the OP is not authorised and has signifigantly changed the product. Pandora do not sell these items plated in gold. By describing the items as " Brand New " the OP has also breached the product copyright, as Pandora does not sell these items as gold plated so how can the OP be selling " Brand New " gold plated Pandora.?

I stand by my original suggestion that if the items where described as Used / gold plated, they should be legal. ( But I still would not hold my breath about ebay allowing them though ) 

[chameleon54]

SNAP  ( typing too slow as per usual ) ....

[brerrabbit585]

Ah, but I was a typist for many years.

[k1ooo-slr-sales]

I looked at the completed listings . . . . . . and think the use of the word “genuine” in the title would cause issues

[digital*ghost]

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@chameleon54 wrote:

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My point was that unless you know something I don't, this is all speculation on your part.

However, the wording on the site doesn't require interpretation or speculation at all; it's very clear.

"PANDORA does not authorise any of our retailers to sell PANDORA jewellery on any Internet auction sites, and we can only guarantee the authenticity of products purchased through our authorised PANDORA retailers."

i.e. "We don't let our sellers do it", not "we won't let any sellers do it".

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Pandora have a reputation for closely gaurding the copyright of their products. As the above highlight shows, they AUTHORISE their sellers as a means of protecting that product copyright.

The extension of the above argument is that the OP is not authorised and has signifigantly changed the product. Pandora do not sell these items plated in gold. By describing the items as " Brand New " the OP has also breached the product copyright, as Pandora does not sell these items as gold plated so how can the OP be selling " Brand New " gold plated Pandora.?

I stand by my original suggestion that if the items where described as Used / gold plated, they should be legal. ( But I still would not hold my breath about ebay allowing them though ) 

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I agree 100% with the bulk of what your're saying, I just thought you were suggesting that no one is allowed to sell new Pandora items on eBay in any way, shape or form (modified or not) - apologies if I misinterpreted, I was just pointing out that "authorised retailers" aren't something that's exclusive to brands that take the same kinds of measures that Pandora does, and it doesn't necessarily mean what it's been taken to mean.

eg JB Hi Fi are no doubt authorised retailers of iPhones - and Apple no doubt do not guarantee the authenticity of iPhones purchased from non-authorised retailers. That doesn't mean I'm doing anything wrong legally, or outside the terms JB and Apple have with one another, if I get a deep discount on iPhones from JB and list them on eBay, or that Apple would be within their rights to report my listings under the Vero program (that's not to say they wouldn't, just that it would be a heavy handed approach that I wouldn't be able to dispute very far, only grumble about how unfair it is). 

But absolutely, if I altered the casings on those iPhones, I'd definitely have to be pretty careful with how I listed them - I mean, putting a skin on something doesn't change the brand of the core product, but it does alter the product enough to no longer be 100% original and therefore I'd be leveraging the brand name (in part) to sell non-branded elements.  

[chameleon54]

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@digital*ghost wrote:

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@chameleon54 wrote:

---

The crux of the matter is that the OP has listed his items as brand new. Pandora licence all of their retail sellers and no doubt charge them very hefty franchise fees to be authorised Pandora sellers. With this in mind, Pandora are well within their rights and are actually being commercially responsible by protecting the retailers who have paid the licence fees to sell " NEW " Pandora.

 Basically the OP is not a licenced retailer and has not paid Pandora franchise fees, so is breaching Pandoras licencing agreements with its retailers by listing the items as " brand New "

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My point was that unless you know something I don't, this is all speculation on your part.

However, the wording on the site doesn't require interpretation or speculation at all; it's very clear.

"PANDORA does not authorise any of our retailers to sell PANDORA jewellery on any Internet auction sites, and we can only guarantee the authenticity of products purchased through our authorised PANDORA retailers."

i.e. "We don't let our sellers do it", not "we won't let any sellers do it".

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http://www.ebay.com.au/gds/A-Message-from-PANDORA-Head-Office-re-Counterfeiting-/10000000017353234/g...

Some more info from the Pandora website.

Pandora repeatedly state on their website that they only sell their product through their 10,300 authorised sellers worldwide and these authorised sellers are not allowed to sell new Pandora on ebay. No offence digi but not speculation, just reading from the official Pandora website....

[digital*ghost]

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@chameleon54 wrote:

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http://www.ebay.com.au/gds/A-Message-from-PANDORA-Head-Office-re-Counterfeiting-/10000000017353234/g...

Some more info from the Pandora website.

Pandora repeatedly state on their website that they only sell their product through their 10,300 authorised sellers worldwide. No offence digi but not speculation, just reading from the official Pandora website....

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Right, Pandora only sell to those sellers.

But, they have no legal right to try and control what happens to genuine items after they have been purchased from an authorised seller - that's what I was trying to get at (I'm speaking in general, so referring specifically to unmodiffied, genuine Pandora items).

[chameleon54]

The Pandora link says it has one Authorised stockist on ebay. " Charm-me". I clicked on their store, over 30,000 feedback but the store does not have any listings and is not currently active.

[chameleon54]

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@digital*ghost wrote:

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@chameleon54 wrote:

---

http://www.ebay.com.au/gds/A-Message-from-PANDORA-Head-Office-re-Counterfeiting-/10000000017353234/g...

Some more info from the Pandora website.

Pandora repeatedly state on their website that they only sell their product through their 10,300 authorised sellers worldwide. No offence digi but not speculation, just reading from the official Pandora website....

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Right, Pandora only sell to those sellers.

But, they have no legal right to try and control what happens to genuine items after they have been purchased from an authorised seller - that's what I was trying to get at (I'm speaking in general, so referring specifically to unmodiffied, genuine Pandora items).

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Agreed, but that gets back to the main point I have tried to make all along. Yes the items where modified, but the main problem is they where listed as "brand new" after these modifications and when they where second hand. ( As soon as the item leaves the authorised Pandora retailers premisis it is used, regardless of wether it has been worn ). It is the " brand New " description that is leading to the infingements. If listed as used or second hand, basically the OP can do what they like, although the use of the word " Pandora " to describe a modified item is probably not going to fly on ebay, judging from the links I have posted

Sorry if it is all splitting hairs, but that is what the lawyers will do if it ever got to court..