on 09-06-2016 11:01 AM
got an email from PayPal this morning about changes to the PayPal User Agreement. Haven't gone to the PayPal site to get full details but the email indicates that from 15th July there will be buyer protection for eligible PickUp and Hand Delivered items.
on 09-06-2016 04:20 PM
@clarry100 wrote:Wonder if the ACCC or the Financial Ombudsman know about this one.
they will have considered all of the implications of the changes and would not proceed if there was any doubt about the legality of the changes. They may also have consulted the ACCC and the FOS before announcing these changes.
I think the changes detailed by digi are being put in place to limit PayPal's exposure to financial losses due to fraudulent practices. On the one hand we should applaud PayPal for reducing fraud, and the other hand . . . . . . . well, PayPal can do what they like with that one!
on 09-06-2016 05:01 PM
well well well, i just wanna say good on ya PP
them poor buyers were really needin some extra incentive to rip buyers off.
luckily nothing i sell gets either pickup or hand delivered.
and sure as hell wont be in the future now.
i ask, if an items not as described when ya turn up to pick it up, WHY WOULD YOU PICK IT UP!
how am i suposed to fly like an eagle when i'm surrounded by turkeys?
09-06-2016 05:11 PM - edited 09-06-2016 05:14 PM
Some general thoughts on these changes...
This was pointed out by someone else on FB, and is a very good question - how will PayPal confirm goods have been returned to the seller in SNAD / pick-up cases, particularly where postage is either not an option, or prohibitively expensive? (In some cases the buyer may not have taken possession of the goods - how will that be determined if possession of the goods is actually contested? In other cases, large items could travel for hundreds of k's with the buyer before a SNAD is raised and cost hundreds to return via courier, so it will be interesting to see if/how the policy is amended to accomodate these unique circumstances).
Re: retaining funds, you'll note there's no restriction (mentioned) on spending the funds, only withdrawing it (it could go without saying that you'd be prevented from spending it, but I'd think it would also then be made very clear in the abvove terms that it applies to all forms of access to funds).
I also wonder if / how it will work in conjunction with eBay's 21 day holds. If an account is affected by both, I wonder if there will be any restrictions on withdrawing the full amount.
The thing that mosts disturbs me is that thus far, this is no transparency (and I don't expect there ever will be) in how PP will determine which accounts will be subject to this, nor how they will determine which accounts are affected (as well as the amount or percentage they'll be able to withdraw). The vagueness of it as good as gives them carte blanche to do it to any account.
I'm also a little bemused by the mention of using "publicly available information" - it conjures images of PP staff looking up member's Facebook accounts ("PayPal liked your photo from 2009"
).
09-06-2016 05:21 PM - edited 09-06-2016 05:26 PM
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on 09-06-2016 05:24 PM
@digital*ghost wrote:
The thing that mosts disturbs me is that thus far, this is no transparency (and I don't expect there ever will be) in how PP will determine which accounts will be subject to this, nor how they will determine which accounts are affected (as well as the amount or percentage they'll be able to withdraw). The vagueness of it as good as gives them carte blanche to do it to any account.
It'll bug me if I don't correct myself post-uneditable-post - as in, I didn't mean to ask the same question twice.
09-06-2016 05:28 PM - edited 09-06-2016 05:29 PM
Edited because the original post was edited / deleted, so removing quote and reply. 😉
09-06-2016 05:31 PM - edited 09-06-2016 05:32 PM
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11-06-2016 01:28 PM - edited 11-06-2016 01:30 PM
So basically, if a buyer pays with PayPal (and sounds like we are going to be forced to accept PayPal on pick up items) picks up an item, inspects it and takes it home, uses it for a few months, breaks it, they have 180 days to lodge a dispute for Not as Described!
Well, don't that just open it up even more for sellers to be scammed.
The whole point on pick up items is to inspect it, be happy with and walk away or not be happy and don't take it.
what a crock of Sh!t
on 11-06-2016 01:54 PM
@designers*n*more wrote:So basically, if a buyer pays with PayPal (and sounds like we are going to be forced to accept PayPal on pick up items) picks up an item, inspects it and takes it home, uses it for a few months, breaks it, they have 180 days to lodge a dispute for Not as Described!
Well, don't that just open it up even more for sellers to be scammed.
The whole point on pick up items is to inspect it, be happy with and walk away or not be happy and don't take it.
what a crock of Sh!t
I think we would need to see the fine print on the buyer protection for pickup items before panicking.
on 11-06-2016 02:43 PM
If the current policies surrounding SNAD don't change, a buyer shouldn't be able to do that because the protection is only for items in their received state (so, not after several months of use).